Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Plumster » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:46 pm

Thanks, Floramaria. Dr. Goodenowe referred to a "maintenance dose" in an interview a while back and he seemed uncertain what it would be. Just wondering if he or anyone else has a good idea of what that might be. Knowing your results would be helpful too.
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby floramaria » Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:07 pm

Plumster wrote:Thanks, Floramaria. Dr. Goodenowe referred to a "maintenance dose" in an interview a while back and he seemed uncertain what it would be. Just wondering if he or anyone else has a good idea of what that might be. Knowing your results would be helpful too.
Yes, Plumster, I'll definitely post here. I am hoping my "maintenance dose" will be less than what I am taking now!
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby PeterM » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:20 am

Thanks, Floramaria, please do keep us posted! I’m sure more than a few of us are following your plasmalogen journey with interest. Personally I’m still on the fence about testing first. My plan as of now is to use both the neuro form and glia form, but on alternate days, then test in 6 months to see where my levels are. Unless one has a stellar TG/HDL ratio at baseline, waiting to test might financially be a more prudent way to begin. In any case, I appreciate you keeping us up-to-date.

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby floramaria » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:46 am

PeterM wrote:Thanks, Floramaria, please do keep us posted! I’m sure more than a few of us are following your plasmalogen journey with interest. Personally I’m still on the fence about testing first. My plan as of now is to use both the neuro form and glia form, but on alternate days, then test in 6 months to see where my levels are. Unless one has a stellar TG/HDL ratio at baseline, waiting to test might financially be a more prudent way to begin. In any case, I appreciate you keeping us up-to-date.

I pretty much always have what I consider to be stellar TG/HDL ratios. In the last test before my ProdromeScan, mine was 58/83.
I also had very good lipid profile with high levels of phosphatidylethanolamines and phosphatidylcholine. Plenty of dietary supply. Where I am deficient is in my ability to synthesize plasmalogen phospholipids.
So we will see how months of supplementation have shifted things.
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby TheresaB » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:33 am

For those interesting in learning more about plasmalogens, this paper Potential Role of Plasmalogens in the Modulation of Biomembrane Morphology was just published, 21 July 2021.

From intro paragraph:
Plasmalogens are a subclass of cell membrane glycerophospholipids that typically include vinyl- ether bond at the sn-1 position and polyunsaturated fatty acid at the sn-2 position. They are highly abundant in the neuronal, immune, and cardiovascular cell membranes. Despite the abundance of plasmalogens in a plethora of cells, tissues, and organs, the role of plasmalogens remains unclear. Plasmalogens are required for the proper function of integral membrane proteins, lipid rafts, cell signaling, and differentiation. More importantly, plasmalogens play a crucial role in the cell as an endogenous antioxidant that protects the cell membrane components such as phospholipids, unsaturated fatty acids, and lipoproteins from oxidative stress. The incorporation of vinyl-ether linked with alkyl chains in phospholipids alter the physicochemical properties (e.g., the hydrophilicity of the headgroup), packing density, and conformational order of the phospholipids within the biomembranes. Thus, plasmalogens play a significant role in determining the physical and chemical properties of the biomembrane such as its fluidity, thickness, and lateral pressure of the biomembrane. Insights on the important structural and functional properties of plasmalogens may help us to understand the molecular mechanism of membrane transformation, vesicle formation, and vesicular fusion, especially at the synaptic vesicles where plasmalogens are rich and essential for neuronal function. Although many aspects of plasmalogen phospholipid involvement in membrane transformation identified through in vitro experiments and membrane mimic systems, remain to be confirmed in vivo, the compiled data show many intriguing properties of vinyl-ether bonded lipids that may play a significant role in the structural and morphological changes of the biomembranes. In this review, we present the current limited knowledge of the emerging potential role of plasmalogens as a modulator of the biomembrane morphology.


From the final concluding remarks paragraph:
In conclusion, with the potential role of plasmalogens in biomembranes as a modulator of cell membrane physicochemical properties and morphology, plasmalogens cannot be regarded to function only as an internal antioxidant that maintains membrane lipids and proteins integrity. Plasmalogens affect both across the lipid bilayer (lipid asymmetry) and lateral dimension (lipid domains) and facilitate the formation of non-lamellar structures in the cell. Inducing membrane curvature initiates and promotes membrane fusion/fission, vesicular formation, and molecular transportation which are crucial for normal cell function (especially neuronal cells) and adaptation to stress conditions. This new aspect of plasmalogens in the bilayer membrane architecture has been tested in artificial membrane lipid systems and yet to be explored in vivo. Furthermore, in-depth study of the underlying molecular mechanism of inducing and selecting a specific spatial arrangement of bilayer-based membranes is indeed critical to the understanding of the association between cell membrane alteration and adjustment of cellular function and adaptation to stress and pathological conditions.
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Tincup » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:52 pm

Plumster wrote:Thanks, Floramaria. Dr. Goodenowe referred to a "maintenance dose" in an interview a while back and he seemed uncertain what it would be. Just wondering if he or anyone else has a good idea of what that might be. Knowing your results would be helpful too.


Hi Plumster. Likely individual. I posted my redacted lab tests in another thread in response to a question there.

I posted there, "Without Dr. G's (Goodenowe's) interpretation, I would have no clue. Before the consult, I thought I was not in great shape (from the labs). He told my wife & I he almost never sees results this good. He said we'd mitigated our E4 risk (she's a 4/4). We were beta testers of his neuro plasmalogen supplement and had been taking for ~18 months prior. This was our first test. Told me to keep taking 1 ml/day and my wife to double for a few months and then drop back on the supplement. I'm 66 and my wife is 61. In addition to the NOW product (for choline), he suggested increasing my iron intake."

Related to the iron, I started trying to balance my minerals and electrolytes in April. I've had afib for 17 years and after a 2 1/2 month episode starting 2 months after my initial episode, I've managed to keep my afib burden in the <0.02% range for most years since. My regimen includes training at specific levels and intensities so as not to overtrain (my initial path to afib) along with avoiding calcium, taking magnesium to bowel tolerance, adding 2 t (about 4 g potassium) of potassium citrate to water along with 1 t NaCl and drinking over the day and 1/2 tsp taurine powder. My excellent control started deteriorating in January, which coincided with getting the results of a food intolerance test from Gundry. I think changing my diet added in excess calcium from non-dairy sources. In any case, after listening to this podcast, I decided to take the bait and do the hair analysis suggested by the interviewee in April. Right after I got my first consult, I implemented some of the consultant's suggestions even before I recieved their products that were suggested. This included adding in more NaCl, not taking Zn or D3 and adding in organ meats. My heart stability increased nearly instantly. I just had my second consult two weeks ago (hair needs to grow for 2 1/2 months for a new test). Per the first consult, I'd been supplementing with their Cu product at a large dose & it was unchanged in my analysis. Otherwise, the results went as expected with what I'd been doing. The consultant suggested adding HCl and enzymes supplements when I eat. I did and my glucose control eating carbs got much better. Just after this suggestion, this book, "Why Stomach Acid Is Good for You: Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux and GERD" came through my feed. Reading it indicates that low stomach acid is very common as we age and may be a huge cause of poor digestion and not absorbing nutrients, like the iron and maybe the Cu. The consultant also thought I might have a digestive bug that is consuming Cu.

As I read the book, it certainly makes sense. I recall 15 years ago, as a vegan, I could easily drive my ferritin levels into the toilet. Likely because the iron in veg needs a very low stomach pH (high acid) to be absorbed. Low stomach acid has likely been an issue with me for years.
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Plumster » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:40 pm

Tincup,

Thanks for your thorough and interesting reply. I am curious about the book you linked. I will take a look!
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby floramaria » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:15 am

Tincup wrote: The consultant suggested adding HCl and enzymes supplements when I eat. I did and my glucose control eating carbs got much better. Just after this suggestion, this book, "Why Stomach Acid Is Good for You: Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux and GERD" came through my feed. Reading it indicates that low stomach acid is very common as we age and may be a huge cause of poor digestion and not absorbing nutrients, like the iron and maybe the Cu..
ThankS for the book link, Tincup. Looks interesting. As a side note here in our plasmalogen thread: when I got the Quicksilver Metals Panel a couple of months ago, almost all of my nutrient metal levels were low even though I eat a mineral-rich diet and supplement too. In the post-test consult, I was told the same thing as you were told. Most likely I have absorption problems from low stomach acid. Recommendations were for HCl and digestive enzymes.
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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby johnseed » Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:59 pm

I was excited by Julie's Aug 17 podcast #2 with Dr Goodenowe and by the results of his Prodrome supplements trial with people with MCI and AD.

Got me thinking about how I might construct an N=1 trial.

I am 75 years old, APOe4/2, have been noticing SCI for about 10 years, started moving into the Bredesen Protocol 3 years ago and enrolled in ReCode over a year ago. Some serious health issues distracted me but I’m back now into focussing on creating the conditions conducive to decades of vibrant good health.

My MOCA score is 30, CNS vital signs Cind still at 82nd percentile but short term memory is deteriorating and though cerebral volume is at 85th percentile for my age, hippocampus is 66th percentile, low compared to overall cerebral volume.

So … some of the measures I can think of for a baseline preceding such a trial would be CNS vital signs and Brain HQ, in particular BrainHQ’s “Percentile Overview”.

However, as short term memory is the cognitive feature that is most clearly declining, I wonder what other tests there might be that would focus on this particularly so that I could get the best indication possible as to whether the supplements were having much effect there?

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Re: Plasmalogens- exciting new evidence

Postby Tincup » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:39 pm

johnseed wrote: I wonder what other tests there might be that would focus on this particularly so that I could get the best indication possible as to whether the supplements were having much effect there?


I'm no expert. Here is my 2 cents. I have an adult son who's had glioblastoma brain cancer for 49 months. His short term memory is shot. We take him to "vision therapy" at an integrative optometrist's office. They work on vision, memory, processing speed, balance and other issues. One of the exercises is on a large monitor like the kids card game "Concentration." In this you have "cards" face up that you turn over. The objective is to remember where the matching pairs are located. In his version the score is to see how my tries (turning cards over) it takes to get 14 correct. Lower is better.

Interestingly, a year ago it was taking ~400 tries to get 14 correct. Then we started doing simple KAATSU blood flow restriction exercises with him. Hi score dropped to in the 60-90 range. Still not spectacular, but certainly better. As his illness continues to progress (for scale, median survival is 12-18 months after diagnosis), he has not consistently maintained that, but when I took him Tuesday, he scored 90.

So perhaps you could construct something like this for yourself. Now what we notice is the improvement in this "short short" memory doesn't mean that transferring things into slightly longer (a few days) memory has improved.
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