Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

Post by Quantifier »

johnseed wrote:
circular wrote:
Julie G wrote: Hmm, went from 16! down to 7 over a couple of years but then back up to 8.9. Now uncertain whether to try and lower this or not. Any more from Dr Bredesen or does he still want us below 7 I wonder?
Did you get it down by supplementation or some other way? Mine was around 12 back in 2015, got it down to 7.5 in a few months by taking a methylated B12 supplement, and it seems to have stayed there even after slightly reducing my supplement dose - it is now 7.1. I think the only thing that would drive mine up would be dropping the supplement altogether, which would drive it way over, and I do need my B12, so I'm just leaving mine where it is.
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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rrmolo wrote:very difficult if you're managing your own care...even if you're not...what practitioner knows?
I suspect no one knows the ideal level for any given individual. What differences in individual biology might influence what the ideal level would be?
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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I have been as high as 12 when not taking methylated B12 but have only gotten to 9.6 with methylated B12. All my other metabolic numbers and ratios are very good. My Bredesen practitioner wants homocysteine much lower.
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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circular wrote:What differences in individual biology might influence what the ideal level would be?
Perhaps not so much individual biology, but maybe a genetic advantage if some nutrient is scarce, very high or seasonal. Look at evolutionary pressure - we often get variants because they bring some survival advantage to the table. The methylation cycle has multiple points for nutrition to move the needle because in the "old" days, humans didn't have daily access to meat (methionine), greens/vegetables (folate) or eggs (choline). Perhaps there was an advantage of carrying higher homocysteine in times when hunting or fishing was not productive and methionine was restricted. During those times, it mattered more to the body to make it to next week (ensuring healthy methylation, by perhaps using up high levels of homocysteine to convert to methionine) than for evolution to "worry" about old age diseases like AD or CVD, because most humans didn't make it even to middle age.

We talk about the mismatch of E4 to modern day living. I think it applies to a lot of the variants out there that cause disease today.

The individual component might come from the influence of one's ancestors' food environment, and access to certain nutrients, on methylation genetic variants related to high homocysteine.

For one example of diet and the evolutionary pressure on genes, this is how Inuits manage high fat diets without severe health consequences: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32088118/

That's my simplistic theory and I'm sticking to it. :lol:
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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SusanJ wrote: That's my simplistic theory and I'm sticking to it. :lol:
Hey, I like it! Skooch over and make room for me!
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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Jlhughette wrote:I have been as high as 12 when not taking methylated B12 but have only gotten to 9.6 with methylated B12. All my other metabolic numbers and ratios are very good. My Bredesen practitioner wants homocysteine much lower.
Homocysteine is normally recycled by the MTR (which uses B12) enzyme and BHMT (which needs trimethylglycine, TMG, and zinc).

B12 might have pushed the MTR pathway to lower your value some, but if you have problems in your choline pathway, or don't get enough choline, then BHMT is not doing it's job so well.

I have variants in the choline pathway that suggest my BHMT might be part of the problem. I lowered mine to 7.2 (from 10.4) using 400 mcg folate, 500 mcg B12, 4 mg B6 and 500 mg TMG (I use Life Extension TMG). I am homozygote for MTHFR rs1801133 (folate conversion), NBPF3 rs4654748 (B12 conversion), and FUT2 rs602662 (B6 conversion), which effect homocysteine recycling, but didn't get it down until I added TMG to manage the choline conversion issues.

If you have genetic testing results, it's worth looking at the methylation wiki to see if any are problematic for you or go directly to the hacking homocysteine section.
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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circular wrote:Skooch over and make room for me!
Any time dear friend!
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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The MTHFR expert Ben Lynch notes that if homocysteine is too low, you can't make glutathione adequately, increasing your risk of oxidative stress. https://www.drbenlynch.com/low-homocysteine/
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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Plumster wrote:The MTHFR expert Ben Lynch notes that if homocysteine is too low, you can't make glutathione adequately, increasing your risk of oxidative stress. https://www.drbenlynch.com/low-homocysteine/
Thanks Plumster! I also read Joseph Pizzorno's piece that Lynch linked to ... Low Homocysteine: Friend or Foe?
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Re: Both High (>10.6) and Low (<8.9) Homocysteine May Increase the Risk of AD

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So in summary, Pizzorno thinks 5-7 mM is ideal, and implies that if anyone has peripheral neuropathy they should get their levels checked. Lynch thinks anything less than 6 mM is too low. Still different from the Korean findings. But I like the approach that says, look into metabolism as a whole, do you have adequate levels of all the components that drive the process? (Way back my glutathione levels were low-ish, I stopped microwaving my broccoli - went right up!)
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