MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

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whit4health
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MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by whit4health »

Hi,
I'm here in hopes of finding answers and suggestions on how to live your best life to prevent Alzheimer's or cardiovascular disease. I'm 55 and at this point, I can see that higher LDL is going to be my problem as it was my dad's and brother's. No one in my family has ever had Alzheimers, but heart disease has been strong. I would prefer to stay on a good path to avoid the same fate. In addition to having APOE 4/4, I also have MTHFR C677T. I'm curious if anyone else has the same MTHFR mutation with 4/4 and if so, what have you found works well for you as far as supplements, etc. As far as diet, I've been all over the place. I've tried WFPB for a couple of years and that didn't work well for me. I actually started seeing my LDL go up and I started not feeling well. I know I'm at risk for diabetes, so I switched to more of a pegan or paleo lifestyle. I cut out the carbs and that made a huge difference in numbers. I also found that eating meat made me feel so much better and I felt like my brain was functioning much better. I know I need to watch the fat, but not easy. I mostly eat salmon, turkey and the occasional organic grass fed beef which I absolutely would eat every day if I knew I could. Beyond that, I try to stick to a lot of veggies and fruit. I've recently discovered the Blood type diet and surprisingly, I think this will work well for me. A few of the items listed not to eat with blood type B, like chicken, I have seen increasing cause inflammation the past if I ate those items. The chicken may have been a problem due to the higher Omega 6's. Also, some lectins have also caused a problem in the past and it lists a few not to eat also. I may stick with this diet, being careful not to eat dairy or soy as I'm allergic to soy and lactose intolerant with some cheeses but not all. I'm in perimenopause and have found that my cholesterol will shoot way up when the estrogen is low and then come back down when the hormones return for a bit. So, I do think I will need to use bioidentical hormones. It definitely makes a difference in my LDL. I've refused statins so far, but just started Red Yeast Rice and my functional medicine doctor is also wanting me to take Bergamot in addition to that. Hoping I can reverse the damage already done in the arteries that is happening fast. 3 years ago my calcium score was 0. Two months ago it was 11 in the LAD artery only. There was also some mild build up in the Right carotid artery. My regular doctor felt this happened too fast and its not a good track I'm on. However, I have been in tremendous stress mode for several years and the last 3 have not been good at all. The nutritionist, my regular doctor and the functional medicine doctor all think this stress has contributed mostly to the increased plaque. I exercise at least 4-5 times a week, try to eat healthy and I take many supplements to try and correct this. I'm hoping maybe someone here can shed some light on what they've experienced with having the MTHFR mutation and the 4/4. I know we are all genetically different beyond those two genetic issues, but, I'm looking for some other ideas as to what may or may have not worked for others.
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karelena
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by karelena »

For C677T MTHFR deficiency, I take methylfolate and methylcobalamin. The supplement I use is Life Extension "Homocysteine Resist," but there are many options. This brought my homocysteine level down from 12 to 7. Do you know what your homocysteine level is? I believe there is a section on MTHFR in the wiki.
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SusanJ
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by SusanJ »

whit4health wrote:I'm hoping maybe someone here can shed some light on what they've experienced with having the MTHFR mutation and the 4/4. I know we are all genetically different beyond those two genetic issues, but, I'm looking for some other ideas as to what may or may have not worked for others.
Welcome, and although I am a 3/4, I also have MTHFR C677T. My first advice would be twofold. You have to ditch the stress. Whatever it takes. I had a high stress period during perimenopause/menopause between my first calcium score of 0 and ten years later that showed plaque. Please don't ignore this part of getting your health back on track.

I have just about every weird combo of gene variants that put my methylation status at risk, from SLC19a1 (transports folate into cells) to snps in the choline pathway, which without eating right, ties up my folate and methyl groups for other things than methylating homocysteine. I've learned a lot in trying to unpack what to do to support this mess o' genes.

It took me many years to sort through a lot of research, so I put what I learned into the Methylation Wiki page just for people like you, trying to figure out what to do next. Take a read through it and see what might apply to you. I'm always willing to try to answer questions, so let me know if anything doesn't make sense or cover your specific issues.
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karelena
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by karelena »

Thank you SusanJ for the methylation wiki page! I think reducing homocysteine is important and I wonder if unknown high homocysteine was a factor in many heart attacks on my dad's side of the family.
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by JuttaH »

I wonder how many of us who carry E4 (I have E4/E3) also carry the C677T mutation, as well as MCAD deficiency, Alpha-1, ATM mutated. The last two were confirmed via "official" testing. I hit the lucky jackpot train wreck. I ALSO carry tons of problematic high-risk cardiovascular disease genes, autoimmune disease risk factors... which is exactly in line with my family history.

I noticed a lessening of "brain fog" when I started taking small doses of Methylfolate right away, which is great for me as I already have ADHD. My diet isn't the best as I simply can't afford healthy food on a regular basis... Sadly, a $15 dollar bottle of pills is cheaper than supplying myself with a constant supply of spinach that will wither and rot. I often don't get much of anything out of supplements I try, so I don't consider this a placebo effect. If you get the brand that contains "Metafolin", I've read it's the same ingredient as the prescription drug prescribed for people with this mutation.

Unfortunately, I also know my child is a homozygote for MTHFR, but I anticipate the pediatrician looking at me as if I were a quack if I suggested she test my child for it. "Official" genetic testing should be more accessible, seriously, particularly when it comes to nutritional deficiencies that can snowball into worse problems.
dng050
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by dng050 »

I am MTHFR homozygote. Thinking about starting a B-vitamins supplement. Is this one OK:
https://www.med24.no/vitaminer-minerale ... ve-120-kap
rique
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by rique »

I am also MTHFR homozygote (C677T) and 63 years old. My cholesterol was always around 250 or 260 during before I entered perimenopause. At that time, the cholesterol guidelines weren't as strict, and the acceptable range was much higher. In the 90s, doctors started telling me to get on a statin, but I refused because of being averse to drugs. I was already a vegetarian at that time, still consuming eggs and dairy. My diet wasn't that good, and I led a very stressful life. Upon entering perimenopause, my total cholesterol started to shoot up to the 300 range (hdl normal, but not that high). My triglycerides have always been normal. My doctors went crazy, but I still refused the statin. At one point, I put myself on cod liver oil, and my cholesterol jumped to 375. This is around 2006. At that time, I didn't know about particle size, etc., so I never asked for that test. CRP was excellent. Homocysteine was normal, but high normal. I've been on various diets from then until now, and my cholesterol has ranged from 316 to 416. Right now it's about 350. I haven't been a vegetarian since 2007, but I don't eat red meat. Turkey breast and chicken breast are the only meats that I consume. I'll eat an occasional can of wild caught salmon or tuna (thank you Wild Planet), but I really hate the taste of seafood. I've done the Eat Right for Your Blood Type Diet, which makes a lot of sense because of the genes--I am an "A negative". Lately, I've started to watch oxalates because I've seen black stones in my urine, and I keep getting UTI's. My pcp is not helpful at all to me because she doesn't understand my refusal to go on a statin. She's not cooperative when it comes to have additional, non-standard blood work done. I live in the Northeast, and I can't find any doctors that will work with me. All are just following protocol. I have a tendency to get very dehydrated, especially when exercising, and I don't think that I do well enough adding more liquid to my diet. This is funny though. It seems that if I have blood taken when not fasting, my cholesterol is always about 20-30 points lower. Have you had any success with diet and reduction of cholesterol since your last post about it?
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by NF52 »

rique wrote:I am also MTHFR homozygote (C677T) and 63 years old. My cholesterol was always around 250 or 260 during before I entered perimenopause....Right now it's about 350. I haven't been a vegetarian since 2007, but I don't eat red meat. Turkey breast and chicken breast are the only meats that I consume. I'll eat an occasional can of wild caught salmon or tuna (thank you Wild Planet), but I really hate the taste of seafood. I've done the Eat Right for Your Blood Type Diet, which makes a lot of sense because of the genes--I am an "A negative". Lately, I've started to watch oxalates because I've seen black stones in my urine, and I keep getting UTI's... I have a tendency to get very dehydrated, especially when exercising, and I don't think that I do well enough adding more liquid to my diet. This is funny though. It seems that if I have blood taken when not fasting, my cholesterol is always about 20-30 points lower. Have you had any success with diet and reduction of cholesterol since your last post about it?
Hi rique, from another 4/4 who is a few years older and grew up in the Northeast.

I'm not anywhere close to being able to give advice on MTHFR mutations, but if you haven't seen it, this wiki section on Methylation is like having a free seminar full of well-sourced information. A couple of other suggestions you may find useful: Precision Medicine for ApoE4 Carriers is a 2021 article I have read, then re-checked and re-checked again. It has readable sections on most topics related to nutrition, suggestions (not directives!) on food and possible supplements. One of the co-authors is Dr. Richard Isaacson, director of the Alzheimer's Prevention Clinic at Weill Cornell Medical Center at NYU. A colleague of his, Dr. Lisa Mosconi, is Associate Director of the AD Prevention Clinic and Director of the Women's Brain Initiative at NYU. She is also the daughter of an AD mom, whose book The XX Brain: The Groundbreaking Science Empowering Women to Maximize Cognitive Health and Prevent Alzheimer's Disease offers some refreshing views on how women of any age can help their brains. By the way, in an interview she recommended 2 liters of water a day!! I don't get near that, but try to keep a Yeti cup of ice water nearby, after I heard at a conference that our sense of thirst tends to decrease with age so we can get dehydrated and end up with UTIs without realizing we're starving for more water!

My parents also died of heart disease; my dad at 67 of cardiac arrest and my mom at age 86 with moderate stage Alzheimer's and vascular dementia and congestive heart failure. My PCP is a great guy, but has been honest about what my Medicare Supplement insurance will and won't cover. I've gotten some tests from direct-to-consumer providers (here's a wiki on that: Direct to Consumer Lab Testing Options).

I've also asked him to write a prescription for a coronary artery scan and abdominal aorta/peripheral artery scan, given my Dad's history. Each cost about $120-150. and gave me needed peace of mind.

About those statins: You might like to look at a new topic from this week, with comments from some of our most senior (and wise) forum members:
2020 Deep Dive into Statins with Roberta Brinton et al
FWIW, I also decided to go on a low-dose statin about 4 years ago, given some evidence that ApoE 4/4s are particularly at risk for cardiovascular disease and a "leaky" blood brain barrier starting years before those with only one copy of ApoE4.

We have many choices for staying healthy--and being in charge of our decisions is always the most important factor.
4/4 and still an optimist!
rique
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Re: MTHFR C677T and E4/E4

Post by rique »

Thanks for the info! I can't wait to read through it.
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