Osteoarthritis

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roxanne
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Osteoarthritis

Post by roxanne »

For Tincup and TheresaB
I am trying to start the Plant Paradox Diet. I have been suffering for a year and a half with OA of the knee. I was a runner and now I can hardly walk. I would like your help in starting to get rid of lectins and hopefully have some resolution. I tried injections of Hyaluronic Acid and had a Steroid one without any relief. I'm doing physical therapy but no relief. I had an MRI which showed degenerative OA with Tendinopathy. So my last resort is to go lectin free. Without going into a rabbit hole can you recommend a way to start I do Intermittent Fasting 16-8 most days with some days 18-6. Also, I can't lose more weight. I'm at 106 lbs at 5.6. Whatever you can recommend will be appreciated. To make things worse money is an issue. I'm E3/4 and struggling with the issues of blood sugar regulation, cholesterol, and I'm always tweaking. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Roxanne
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by TheresaB »

roxanne wrote:For Tincup and TheresaB
I am trying to start the Plant Paradox Diet. I have been suffering for a year and a half with OA of the knee. I was a runner and now I can hardly walk. I would like your help in starting to get rid of lectins and hopefully have some resolution. I tried injections of Hyaluronic Acid and had a Steroid one without any relief. I'm doing physical therapy but no relief. I had an MRI which showed degenerative OA with Tendinopathy. So my last resort is to go lectin free. Without going into a rabbit hole can you recommend a way to start I do Intermittent Fasting 16-8 most days with some days 18-6. Also, I can't lose more weight. I'm at 106 lbs at 5.6. Whatever you can recommend will be appreciated. To make things worse money is an issue. I'm E3/4 and struggling with the issues of blood sugar regulation, cholesterol, and I'm always tweaking. Thanks in advance for your responses.

Roxanne
I'm so sorry to read your situation, I hope I can help.

As I understand it, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis have different causes. Osteoarthritis is caused by mechanical wear and tear on joints. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease in which the body's own immune system attacks the body's joints.

Eliminating lectins is very beneficial for rheumatoid arthritis because lectins are inflammatory. Regarding osteoarthritis, in our consults with Dr Gundry, known for advocating eliminating lectins and other inflammatory foods from the diet, he has said eliminating lectins can also help.

I have osteoarthritis. I had an orthopedic issue with my right foot, had surgery by a podiatric surgeon which seemed to add more problems than it solved, so I switched to the best orthopedic Surgeon who specialized in feet and ankles that I could find in the area, since orthopedic surgeons have more training. Long story short, after two more surgeries my foot still presents pain every day. That pain led to compensatory walking patterns, which led to muscle pain issues, back pain issues, and osteoarthritis in my right hip.

Maintaining my lectin-free, low-inflammatory diet has not eliminated my osteoarthritis issues. Has it helped? I think so, it’s hard to compare with how I would feel if I hadn't changed my diet. Has is prevented further damage, maybe, I’ve only had one hip x-ray from a number of years ago.

I maintain the diet for other inflammatory reduction reasons, not the least of which is as a 4/4, I especially need to keep inflammation down.

Things I have done to address my pain:
*I had a stem-cell procedure done. It seemed to help the hips, it didn’t help the foot. In all fairness, after looking at my x-rays the doctor warned me it was a 50-50 shot the procedure would help my foot.
*I saw a manual manipulation osteopath, not any old osteopath. Her treatment is through physical manipulation. I would still be going to her today if my insurance covered her.
*That osteopath recommended I also see a rolfer. Her guidance was the osteopath heals from within, the rolfer heals from the outside. I guess they sort of meet in the middle. I still see my rolfer about once a month. My foot used to be stiff as a board, slowly, with his treatments, which, warning, can be intense sometimes, my foot now articulates more like a foot allowing me to walk a little more normally, although still not there yet, a process taking years.
*I sought out a good physical therapist, one who specializes in pain for those who’ve tried everything. I had to pay out of pocket, but my appointments were an hour long with hands on treatment, traction for the arthritis, muscle relaxing treatments, stretches and exercises. She continued with these sessions until my muscle pain issues were resolved, not until the insurance payment ran out. She has made a big difference in my life. She also has a pilates instructor at her office and I chose to continue muscle balance maintenance practices with pilates once a week. The PT is there for when pain issues flare up again. I do regular stretching, muscle balance exercises, traction and pilates at home during the rest of the week.

I’m sorry I’m not helping you much with solutions that won’t cost a chunk of change. I’m not exactly happy about the expense either, I’m retired, and I never factored all of this in my retirement budget, this all occurred after retirement. But these are the things that are helping me continue to live a normal, within limitations, active life.

But getting back to diet. Dr Gundry gave us a list of “yes” foods and “no” foods, we stuck that on the fridge (can be found through Dr Gundry's Protocol wiki and I just ate what it said I could eat and stayed away from the foods I couldn’t, we’ve continued on the diet ever since. There have been times, not often, when I’ve met friends for lunch and there’s just nothing on the menu that fits. I usually check out the menu online beforehand and try to find the closest compliant I can find and take the supplement “lectin shield” before the meal and after to block the effects of the lectins.

My husband and I also have food sensitivities that we discovered by taking “zoomer” tests, so our diet is even more restrictive, therefore our diet is pretty ordinary, no great recipes to share, but there are resources out there: Dr Gundry’s Plant Paradox cookbook, Lectin-free solutions run by a member whose recipes are also ApoE4 friendly, lectin-free mama, facebook pages dedicated to Dr Gundry’s Plant Paradox diet, our own wiki: Recipes form our members and more, start digging and they’ll appear.

I also recommend Dr Gundry’s book, “The Plant Paradox” in it he explains the rationale behind his diet as well as offering a number of recipes. You can get a jump start by reading our wiki: Dr Gundry's Protocol

I hope this helps.
-Theresa
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by circular »

TheresaB wrote:As I understand it, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis have different causes. Osteoarthritis is caused by mechanical wear and tear on joints. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease in which the body's own immune system attacks the body's joints.
I'm not that familiar with it, but there is actually a growing body of research addressing osteoarthritis as an inflammatory condition, albeit maybe not autoimmune. Searching PubMed for 'inflammatory osteoarthritis' provides a starting point. You can select from the older articles that come up and look at Cited By to find newer ones.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by Tincup »

roxanne wrote:
Without going into a rabbit hole can you recommend a way to start I do Intermittent Fasting 16-8 most days with some days 18-6. Also, I can't lose more weight. I'm at 106 lbs at 5.6. Whatever you can recommend will be appreciated. To make things worse money is an issue. I'm E3/4 and struggling with the issues of blood sugar regulation, cholesterol, and I'm always tweaking.
Hi Roxanne,

Theresa has given you a great response. I'll try to add some resources. Here are some FB groups:

Plant Paradox by the Books Recipe Sharing A jillion recipes in the files section

These next three, you could ask your question in. They are supportive.
Gundry Matrix Group
The Plant Paradox, formerly Diet Evolution. A support group.
Lectin Free that’s Me group

Lectin Free Mama website Lots of recipes

In this post, there is an attached file. Apoe4.pdf near the bottom, which has Gundry's recommendations, annotated with E4 restrictions.

Our "Master" post with links to our consults and other references

For cholesterol issues, minimizing saturated fat should help.
A good (free) tool for nutrition analysis is Cronometer, you can use it to see what your macros and micros are.

On blood sugar, and this isn't Gundry's advice, you might review the info I posted on Data Driven Fasting & Optimizing Nutrition here.. A thought would be to start the day with a protein meal, limiting carbs, perhaps with some mono fats. Watch your blood sugar over the day & then eat more carbs later in the day. You might watch your blood sugar to see if has dropped before you eat again in your 8 hour window. Maybe you need more time before you've processed what you've eaten?

I'm going to tag Julie to see if she has anything to add
Julie G wrote:
Tincup
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roxanne
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by roxanne »

TheresaB wrote:
roxanne wrote:For Tincup and TheresaB

Roxanne
I'm so sorry to read your situation, I hope I can help.

As I understand it, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis have different causes. Osteoarthritis is caused by mechanical wear and tear on joints. Rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease in which the body's own immune system attacks the body's joints.

Eliminating lectins is very beneficial for rheumatoid arthritis because lectins are inflammatory. Regarding osteoarthritis, in our consults with Dr Gundry, known for advocating eliminating lectins and other inflammatory foods from the diet, he has said eliminating lectins can also help.

I have osteoarthritis. I had an orthopedic issue with my right foot, had surgery by a podiatric surgeon which seemed to add more problems than it solved, so I switched to the best orthopedic Surgeon who specialized in feet and ankles that I could find in the area, since orthopedic surgeons have more training. Long story short, after two more surgeries my foot still presents pain every day. That pain led to compensatory walking patterns, which led to muscle pain issues, back pain issues, and osteoarthritis in my right hip.

Maintaining my lectin-free, low-inflammatory diet has not eliminated my osteoarthritis issues. Has it helped? I think so, it’s hard to compare with how I would feel if I hadn't changed my diet. Has is prevented further damage, maybe, I’ve only had one hip x-ray from a number of years ago.

I maintain the diet for other inflammatory reduction reasons, not the least of which is as a 4/4, I especially need to keep inflammation down.

Things I have done to address my pain:
*I had a stem-cell procedure done. It seemed to help the hips, it didn’t help the foot. In all fairness, after looking at my x-rays the doctor warned me it was a 50-50 shot the procedure would help my foot.
*I saw a manual manipulation osteopath, not any old osteopath. Her treatment is through physical manipulation. I would still be going to her today if my insurance covered her.
*That osteopath recommended I also see a rolfer. Her guidance was the osteopath heals from within, the rolfer heals from the outside. I guess they sort of meet in the middle. I still see my rolfer about once a month. My foot used to be stiff as a board, slowly, with his treatments, which, warning, can be intense sometimes, my foot now articulates more like a foot allowing me to walk a little more normally, although still not there yet, a process taking years.
*I sought out a good physical therapist, one who specializes in pain for those who’ve tried everything. I had to pay out of pocket, but my appointments were an hour long with hands on treatment, traction for the arthritis, muscle relaxing treatments, stretches and exercises. She continued with these sessions until my muscle pain issues were resolved, not until the insurance payment ran out. She has made a big difference in my life. She also has a pilates instructor at her office and I chose to continue muscle balance maintenance practices with pilates once a week. The PT is there for when pain issues flare up again. I do regular stretching, muscle balance exercises, traction and pilates at home during the rest of the week.

I’m sorry I’m not helping you much with solutions that won’t cost a chunk of change. I’m not exactly happy about the expense either, I’m retired, and I never factored all of this in my retirement budget, this all occurred after retirement. But these are the things that are helping me continue to live a normal, within limitations, active life.

But getting back to diet. Dr Gundry gave us a list of “yes” foods and “no” foods, we stuck that on the fridge (can be found through Dr Gundry's Protocol wiki and I just ate what it said I could eat and stayed away from the foods I couldn’t, we’ve continued on the diet ever since. There have been times, not often, when I’ve met friends for lunch and there’s just nothing on the menu that fits. I usually check out the menu online beforehand and try to find the closest compliant I can find and take the supplement “lectin shield” before the meal and after to block the effects of the lectins.

My husband and I also have food sensitivities that we discovered by taking “zoomer” tests, so our diet is even more restrictive, therefore our diet is pretty ordinary, no great recipes to share, but there are resources out there: Dr Gundry’s Plant Paradox cookbook, Lectin-free solutions run by a member whose recipes are also ApoE4 friendly, lectin-free mama, facebook pages dedicated to Dr Gundry’s Plant Paradox diet, our own wiki: Recipes form our members and more, start digging and they’ll appear.

I also recommend Dr Gundry’s book, “The Plant Paradox” in it he explains the rationale behind his diet as well as offering a number of recipes. You can get a jump start by reading our wiki: Dr Gundry's Protocol

I hope this helps.
Theresa, thanks so much for the thorough response. It absolutely helps. I will start with the wiki and take it from there. In the meantime, I'm stil doing physical therapy, thankfully it's still covered by my insurance. I have tried Rolfing before, I will look into it again.

I'm sorry you have problems with your foot and hip, it's hard, especially when you need to be active. I hear you, my hip and back are now hurting and the PT is working on those muscles.

Again, thanks so much for the suggestions. I will put them into practice and hopefully I will be able to continue being active and reduce the pain level.

Roxanne.
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by roxanne »

Tincup wrote:
roxanne wrote:
Hi Roxanne,

Theresa has given you a great response. I'll try to add some resources. Here are some FB groups:

Plant Paradox by the Books Recipe Sharing A jillion recipes in the files section

These next three, you could ask your question in. They are supportive.
Gundry Matrix Group
The Plant Paradox, formerly Diet Evolution. A support group.
Lectin Free that’s Me group

Lectin Free Mama website Lots of recipes

In this post, there is an attached file. Apoe4.pdf near the bottom, which has Gundry's recommendations, annotated with E4 restrictions.

Our "Master" post with links to our consults and other references

For cholesterol issues, minimizing saturated fat should help.
A good (free) tool for nutrition analysis is Cronometer, you can use it to see what your macros and micros are.

On blood sugar, and this isn't Gundry's advice, you might review the info I posted on Data Driven Fasting & Optimizing Nutrition here.. A thought would be to start the day with a protein meal, limiting carbs, perhaps with some mono fats. Watch your blood sugar over the day & then eat more carbs later in the day. You might watch your blood sugar to see if has dropped before you eat again in your 8 hour window. Maybe you need more time before you've processed what you've eaten?

I'm going to tag Julie to see if she has anything to add
Julie G wrote:
Hi Tincup;

Thank you for your response. I will be checking the links. I am very interested in the info on Data Driven Fasting and Optimizing Nutrition I will start with that. Actually according to my meter my blood sugar behaves well but when it's time for the A1C it never goes down, and I've been trying for 10 years. it's always between 5.4 and 5.8 no matter what I do. I will read the info very carefully and see where it takes me.
Thanks again, that is actually very helpful.

Roxanne
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by Tincup »

roxanne wrote:[ Actually according to my meter my blood sugar behaves well but when it's time for the A1C it never goes down, and I've been trying for 10 years. it's always between 5.4 and 5.8 no matter what I do. I will read the info very carefully and see where it takes me.
That might be a different issue. For some people, A1C is not a perfect or even good proxy for average blood glucose.

See these links:

Chris Kresser
Why Hemoglobin A1c Is Not a Reliable Marker

Peter Attia

https://podclips.com/c/7W3JHv
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by JD2020 »

roxanne wrote:I have been suffering for a year and a half with OA of the knee.
Roxanne
I have OA in the toe. The doc gave me surgical options. I asked if I could try a PRP injection. He said sure. He said he doesn't recommend it first because he feels guilty doing so since it is not covered by insurance and he said seems to be effective only 50% of the time. I was willing to gamble $1000 to avoid surgery. 1 1/2 years later, it is like I have a different toe. I don't know if this is an option for knees.
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by roxanne »

Tincup wrote:
roxanne wrote:[ Actually according to my meter my blood sugar behaves well but when it's time for the A1C it never goes down, and I've been trying for 10 years. it's always between 5.4 and 5.8 no matter what I do. I will read the info very carefully and see where it takes me.
That might be a different issue. For some people, A1C is not a perfect or even good proxy for average blood glucose.

See these links:

Chris Kresser
Why Hemoglobin A1c Is Not a Reliable Marker

Peter Attia

https://podclips.com/c/7W3JHv
Thanks Tincup: I've been telling my FMD that there's something going on with the A!C but she doesn't think that's possible. I will bring her these articles. Maybe she'll listen to that and she stops harassing me with telling me I'm almost diabetic. Talk about stress!

Roxanne
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Re: Osteoarthritis

Post by roxanne »

JD2020 wrote:
roxanne wrote:I have been suffering for a year and a half with OA of the knee.


Roxanne
I have OA in the toe. The doc gave me surgical options. I asked if I could try a PRP injection. He said sure. He said he doesn't recommend it first because he feels guilty doing so since it is not covered by insurance and he said seems to be effective only 50% of the time. I was willing to gamble $1000 to avoid surgery. 1 1/2 years later, it is like I have a different toe. I don't know if this is an option for knees.



Very interesting JD2020. Can you explain the procedure and what you went thru with the injection? I was told about it, but I figured injections don't work. Did the pain immediately go away or did you have to wait for weeks to feel better?

Thanks in advance.

Roxanne
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