Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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floramaria
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Tincup wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:21 am
floramaria wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:09 pm I have a big post coming your way regarding TMAO and avoiding choline.
A recent Huberman Lab podcast where he mentioned a supplement taken with choline that keeps TMAO low. It is this one. TMAO may be offset with 600mg of garlic. A search on TMAO & garlic brought up this.

It is the section that starts at 1:37:29 and mentioned the garlic at about 1:44:00.
thanks. Interesting podcast! I've been eating one clove of raw garlic, chopped up and sitting for 10 minutes to develop the Allicin, each day. Hard for me to know how much 600 mg of garlic is since I do not have a scale.
But some must be better than none. I looked at a few other studies including one with 9 human subjects. In that study, they were drinking raw garlic juice. By the way I calculated it, they were getting almost 2 ounces per day. Effective but....
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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floramaria wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:41 pm I've been eating one clove of raw garlic, chopped up and sitting for 10 minutes to develop the Allicin, each day. Hard for me to know how much 600 mg of garlic is since I do not have a scale.
Here is a horseback estimation.

"The surface area and bulk density values ranged from 186.27-253.6 mm2, and 0.92-0.99 g/cm3, respectively, for both variety cloves." Source

1 cm= 1/2.54 inches or 0.39 inches. Assuming the low density of 0.92 g/cm3, this would be (0.39/0.92)^3 = 1 g garlic or 0.42 in^3=1gr garlic. Since we need 600 mg, 0.42*0.6= 0.25" ^3 for 600 mg garlic. Hence a 1/4 inch cube of garlic is about 600 mg.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Tincup wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:58 pm
floramaria wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:41 pm I've been eating one clove of raw garlic, chopped up and sitting for 10 minutes to develop the Allicin, each day. Hard for me to know how much 600 mg of garlic is since I do not have a scale.
Here is a horseback estimation.

"The surface area and bulk density values ranged from 186.27-253.6 mm2, and 0.92-0.99 g/cm3, respectively, for both variety cloves." Source

1 cm= 1/2.54 inches or 0.39 inches. Assuming the low density of 0.92 g/cm3, this would be (0.39/0.92)^3 = 1 g garlic or 0.42 in^3=1gr garlic. Since we need 600 mg, 0.42*0.6= 0.25" ^3 for 600 mg garlic. Hence a 1/4 inch cube of garlic is about 600 mg.
Wow, Tincup! Thanks for figuring that out and for doing the math!
I’m clearly getting plenty since these are fat cloves of garlic.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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floramaria wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:05 pm I’m clearly getting plenty since these are fat cloves of garlic.
I'm guessing the 600 mg is likely dried garlic as a supplement, so fresh is going to be heavier, therefore getting plenty is a good thing.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Tincup wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:47 pm
floramaria wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:05 pm I’m clearly getting plenty since these are fat cloves of garlic.
I'm guessing the 600 mg is likely dried garlic as a supplement, so fresh is going to be heavier, therefore getting plenty is a good thing.
I’ve avoided garlic for years because a friend who is an Ayurvedic doctor told me that as someone she thought was “Pitta, pitta, pitta!”, spicy hot food were aggravating for my system. I still ate some, but nothing like what I’ve done this week with raw garlic.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Gail wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:29 pm I did some research on the internet and found that Dr. Goodenowe had a company in Saskatchewan at one point that he left under a bit of controversy - possibly the company was taken away from him due to accusations of mismanagement. I know this information could be faulty - as it has been unverified - and my only source of information is on the internet and I could be wrong.
I did read the Sworn Affidavit of David Dube [1], and if anything, that made me respect Dr. Goodenowe more. I got the impression that a hostile takeover was taken place at the company he created.

Some of his past employees, and investors, some which are mentioned in the affidavit seem to be pursuing the same type of thing as the prodrome scan over at Med-life discoveries, and Plasmalogen precursor development over at Grayspace Therapeutics (PP-1011).

I get the impression, however, that the real innovator has always been Dr. Goodenowe, although he has had bad luck dealing with business people. To my knowledge, the Dr. Kling study [2] will use the precursors manufactured by Prodrome Sciences, so that should give some credence to them, given that it's a study funded by the Alzheimer Association and I assume a minimum of due diligence. Would be great to sort out the mystery, though.

[1] http://cfcanada.fticonsulting.com/PDI/d ... d_Dube.pdf
[2] https://www.alz.org/partthecloud/downlo ... 1646957359
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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aedaed11 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:57 pm

I did read the Sworn Affidavit of David Dube [1], and if anything, that made me respect Dr. Goodenowe more. I got the impression that a hostile takeover was taken place at the company he created.

Some of his past employees, and investors, some which are mentioned in the affidavit seem to be pursuing the same type of thing as the prodrome scan over at Med-life discoveries, and Plasmalogen precursor development over at Grayspace Therapeutics (PP-1011).

I get the impression, however, that the real innovator has always been Dr. Goodenowe, although he has had bad luck dealing with business people. To my knowledge, the Dr. Kling study [2] will use the precursors manufactured by Prodrome Sciences, so that should give some credence to them, given that it's a study funded by the Alzheimer Association and I assume a minimum of due diligence. Would be great to sort out the mystery, though.

[1] http://cfcanada.fticonsulting.com/PDI/d ... d_Dube.pdf
[2] https://www.alz.org/partthecloud/downlo ... 1646957359
aedaed1 Thank you for the this information on the UPenn study. I guess we will have to watch and wait. I am hedging my bets and taking 1 ml liter of of the Prodrome Nuero (but not 3 ml). I'm also taking lots of phosphatidylcholine as you pointed out I have the PEMT mutation and need supplementation. I'm hoping this will do it.

I read the UPenn study and didn't see the mention that they were sourcing the Plasmalogens from Prodrome sciences. Did I miss something?

Thank You for these references.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Gail wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:37 am I am hedging my bets and taking 1 ml liter of of the Prodrome Nuero (but not 3 ml). I'm also taking lots of phosphatidylcholine as you pointed out I have the PEMT mutation and need supplementation. I'm hoping this will do it.
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Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread, Gail.
I've been reading about TMAO and running my own (smelly) experiment with garlic.
Today I read an article comparing allicin levels of fresh raw garlic with dried garlic capsules, tablets, and tablets with enteric coating. I was driven to read this after my husband complained that the smell of the raw garlic I've been eating when I eat choline rich foods was seeping from my skin.
Today I ordered some tablets.
Allicin Bioavailability and Bioequivalencd from Garlic Supplements https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073756/

The information I got earlier suggesting I avoid choline came from Gut Intelligence test from Viome.
Almost every food containing choline was in the list of foods I should completely avoid! The reason they gave was : "-(Name of food) contains choline that can be used by your microbes to produce TMA, a precursor to TMAO. TMAO is associated with unwanted metabolic and cardiovascular effects.

TMA is created in the gut by microbes when certain compounds, such as choline and carnitine, are present. TMA can then be converted into TMAO in the liver and enter the bloodstream. High levels of TMAO are associated with unfavorable metabolic and cardiovascular effects. …If your score is Not Optimal, limiting or avoiding foods and supplements high in choline and carnitine may be helpful.


Since I want to supply myself with high levels of choline, I'm trying to work around the TMA production in my microbiome.

I remembered in another thread, there was an article about some foods inhibiting TMA production .
This is the post From this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=7211
“Animal products contain L-carnitine, choline and choline-contributing compounds. These molecules are metabolized by gut bacteria into trimethylamine (TMA), which is converted in the liver to trimethylamine-N-oxide(TMAO), a compound linked to coronary events. Garlic, extra-virgin olive oil and red wine, staple ingredients of the Mediterranean diet, reduce the production of TMAO through allicin and 3,3-dimethylbutan-1-ol (DMB), compounds that block TMA production by gut bacteria.“

Tincup's post above has a link to a video great information about taking garlic to reduce TMAO damage.

There are also a lot of studies suggesting that resveratrol is useful in protecting against damage from TMAO. This is one of the best:

The title of the article is “Resveratrol Attenuates Trimethylamine-N- Oxide (TMAO)-Induced Atherosclerosis by Regulating TMAO Synthesis and Bile Acid Metabolism via Remodeling of the Gut Microbiota”. Here is a link.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4817264/

I'd be happy to compare our ProdromeScan experiences via phone or videoconference if you are still interested in doing that.
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Citicoline is supposed to be a source of choline that does not contribute to TMA production because it is absorbed whole, and the choline is released from it only after absorption (possibly by the liver?)
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Re: Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

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Quantifier wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:01 pm Citicoline is supposed to be a source of choline that does not contribute to TMA production because it is absorbed whole, and the choline is released from it only after absorption (possibly by the liver?)
Thanks for the info on Citicoline and TMAO, Quantifier. Though I could, I don’t want to get all of my choline in supplement form. I prefer eating choline rich foods and supplementing with citicoline. When I did the Chris Masterjohn choline calculator, based on my genetics, to get enough choline I’d need to eat eight egg yolks ( or equivalent) a day.

For now,I’m trying to interrupt the TMA pathway in my microbiome; I have my garlic standing by after eating two eggs on my dinner salad. And popping a resveretrol.
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