Will trying to follow all these recommendations drive me insane, when the point is to avoid going “insane”?

[abalboa]

It might! It's driven me into a pit of despair.

My motivational collapse started last month. I was listening to a talk on brain health while searching for where to buy grass-finished beef and A2 dairy, when I heard Steve Gundry explain why I should avoid the few vegetables I enjoy.

And that was it. He maligned the cucumber and I broke. Because it's all so hard.

When I got my test results, I immersed myself in the universe of science-based prevention recommendations. I adopted many of them: intermittent fasting, intranasal insulin, cold plunges. I grow my own greens, honor my circadian rhythm and avoid alcohol, mouth-breathing, and evening blue light. The hardest things for me are the things that matter the most - avoiding carbs and exercising routinely.

Here's where the self-loathing kicks in. One would think that having watched my grandfather and mother spend the last 12 years of their lives shriveling away in a nursing home from this disease would serve as more than enough motivation to adopt changes I should be doing anyway. What about my ever-present fear that, by the time my daughter (an only child) reaches her mid-twenties, she'll have watched the disease gobble up both her mother's personhood and assets and she'll live with the knowledge that it will likely do the same to her.

And yet, at this very moment, I'm sitting here typing while my phone wants me to exercise off a glucose spike. I've never been so unmotivated to do anything. Something as basic as eating a meal has become a lonely, living nightmare. The changes I have been able to keep are not fun, expensive, and probably of negligible value. I feel like this genetic information has turned me into a miserable freak.

I don't want to give up. I want to be like everyone else on this forum - optimistic, comfortable with and enthusiastic about my regimen, getting jazzed about research, etc. How do I get there?

Welcome pineapplesage,
Thank you for joining our site and posting in the forum. I am so happy to see that NF52 and Beatrice have provided such insightful and compassionate feedback already! I also admire your bravery and honesty in sharing your feelings and thoughts in such and open and honest way. It can overwhelming to process all the information and suggestions for how adapt your lifestyle. If you are open.. I might suggest that both focusing a little bit each day on thanking yourself for the things you are doing (intermittent fasting, intranasal insulin, cold plunges, growing your own greens, avoiding alcohol, ect) and the things you are grateful for in your life can be powerful in keeping us from going down the rabbit hole. You are doing a great job and we can always make adjustments as we move forward. Nancy made such a good point about having joy and enjoying the things in our life today. APOE4 in not a life sentence.. There are many people enjoying full and cognitively healthy lives in there 60-70s and beyond that carry the gene. We know so much more about lifestyle and major factors that can influence the activation of those genes (or not) and it sounds like you are implementing so many good practices already. Having compassion for yourself and treating yourself with kindness and patience is so important. None of us will be perfect in every moment.. nor is there a defined "perfect" protocol for everyone.

As a Support Team Intern, I can also share several tools & resources to help you get the most out of your experience if you would like to explore the site in more detail. The Primer is a detailed and informative resource written by a practicing M.D. with ApoE4/4. It includes information about the biochemistry of the ApoE4 gene and offers a variety of research-based prevention strategies.

Some helpful tips to navigate the site include the How-To Guide. It includes topics such as navigating the forum, private messaging, and searching. One great tip is using the quote (") button when replying to a post. Using the button will automatically alert the member of your response.

If you are interested in learning more about other members check out Our Stories.

Again, I am so glad you joined our forum. I look forward to hearing from you again in the future. Please feel free to reach out here anytime. It's important to have a support system and this forum is full of knowledgeable and compassionate people that are have been in your shoes and we are all here to give each other a lift!

Warmly,
Angie

[JD2020]

And that was it. He maligned the cucumber and I broke. Because it's all so hard.

And yet, at this very moment, I'm sitting here typing while my phone wants me to exercise off a glucose spike. I've never been so unmotivated to do anything. Something as basic as eating a meal has become a lonely, living nightmare.

I don't want to give up. I want to be like everyone else on this forum - optimistic, comfortable with and enthusiastic about my regimen, getting jazzed about research, etc. How do I get there?

My ReCode doc told me to eat 1 - 1 1/2 cups of a raw veggie mix every day. It is cauliflower, cucumber, celery, carrots, and cabbage. The point here is that even the experts disagree. You know what is not good for you - we can all agree that eating sugar and bad-fats laden "food" that was created in a factory is not going to turn out well for us. Take the time you need to figure out everything else.

And I get it about the stress of figuring out each meal. I have totally backed off so that I can relax. I am doing the best that I can right now. I have made a lot of changes. I can do a 15 - 16 hour fast 2 - 3 days per week, and I have even found that I enjoy it. But I am not doing the food perfectly. If I start having cognitive issues, I will know right away that there is this area that I can improve upon to turn things around. Does that mind-set work for you?

Exercise....I told my husband just last week that I am so glad that I enjoy it because it is so important, and it is so time consuming. To have to do something that takes so much time if you are not looking forward to it would be really tough. For me, it is not tough because it is really quite essential to maintaining decent mental health, at least for me. Is there something you like? Is a hike better than time on the treadmill under the florescent lights of a gym? I never liked weight-lifting very much, but then I got Tonal, and now I really love it. There is something for you, you just need to find it.

So my suggestion for how you get there is to try to relax and explore different aspects of the program to come up with the best version of the program for you right now. As time passes, you can modify your routine to slowly come closer and closer to program guidelines.

[TheresaB]

My ReCode doc told me to eat 1 - 1 1/2 cups of a raw veggie mix every day. It is cauliflower, cucumber, celery, carrots, and cabbage. The point here is that even the experts disagree.

Experts certainly do disagree! But I still find this interesting about your ReCode doc because in Dr Bredesen’s book, “The End of Alzheimer’s Program” he cautions on foods that are high in inflammatory lectins (and as 4s, we are especially susceptible to inflammation). While cucumbers are cited in the table in Chapter 8 “Indulge Freely” it does come with a footnote next to it saying “high in lectins.”

Then again you have a doctor who tests your inflammatory markers and can test for leaky gut because not everyone has the same response to such foods. He/she can also remind you about peeling, deseeding and pressure cooking (also mentioned in Dr Bredesen’s book, although I don’t think you’d want to pressure cook cucumbers) to reduce/eliminate the lectin content.

[JD2020]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I have, and have read, the books. There is so much info. I cannot remember all of it.

I have been to many integrative docs over the years, and she is certainly the most brilliant and works closely w Dr. Bredesen. I will follow up. And I will peel and seed the cukes going forward.

[Kay1855]

Peel skins of cucumber, zucchini and spoon the seeds, I do that automatically already. Same with tomatoes : I score them with knife and pour boiled water to cover and wait a minute or two then under cold water skins comes off , I cut them and wash the seeds out under a stream of water. and yes, you can not really do that with cherries, but Roma or heirlooms work well. It really seems too much but after a couple of times it is automated and very quick process. Dr. Gundry said it himself most of the lectins in those are in seeds and peels. Same with beans, pressure cooking reducing lectins from 100s to 2s. Whole idea to reduce lectins to a minimum thus to reduce damage to the gut in those who is susceptible. Hope it helps. Also laying those efforts became a habit with time like not doing them before.

[tramey]

I read your post and it’s almost identical to me and how I feel. I’m struggling to figure out the best route. I will deeply enjoy every moment I have no matter what else I do. Does that mean chocolate cake now and then? Yes, yes it does. Good luck to you.

[Patty H]

Moderator Note: Edited to quote "pineapplesage"

Hello Pineapplesage,
and anyone else on this thread. I am new to this forum - as of last week, and have read a LOT!

I was looking how to post a question and came across your post, and read throughout. I have a LOT of similarities as you do. I think I eat very healthy - at least half if not more organics, lots of vegetables, some fruit, and some fish every week - usually salmon and sardines; very little dairy and red meat. Dark chocolate has always been my favorite.
And I've exercised most days of my life since I was in middle school.
A lot in common.

I have been following Dr. Gundry's diet now for about 6 years. It has made some nice changes in the way I feel - from learning about the lectins. But it took a while to learn what I COULD EAT, after finding out all I COULD NOT eat! Talk about hangry! I just recently added cucs and tomatoes back in - peeling and de-seeding the way described in this post and in his book. I also regularly fast for 15-16 hours, without a problem.

My Mom currently has 24 hour care at her home, due to her Alzheimers. And I manage her care and stop there quite often. I am very strong willed and do NOT want to do anything to make myself more prone to getting this disease.
I understand that much of it is epigenetics - and the info shared here and from Dr. Bredesen is wonderful.

I have certifications in Naturopathics, nutrition and herbalism. I have owned a company (until last year) in Homecare - taking care of and teaching about dementia and other illnesses, as our staff cared for people.
I have tried to start the Apollo Health/ Bredesen approach with my Mom earlier this year, but she was not interested, and quite frankly, a bit far down that road.

One of the important things I've learned in my natural health studies is that the exact solution depends upon where EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON was when they started this process. For example, Vitamin D may be a game changer for someone in their health, but that was likely someone who was very deficient in that Vitamin and it had huge effects on their health. If I, or someone else took that same Vitamin, we may not feel any different - because our bodies were already getting what they needed.

This week, I started measuring ketones via blood and started counting carbs. Oh MY GOSH... I don't know how anyone can eat only 50 carbs in a day! I do not have any weight to lose, and am shocked to find the amount of carbs in vegetables, as I look them up, even cauliflower, broccoli, kale, spinach, brussel sprouts and so many more vegetables add up to have so many carbs!
And I've been eating wild blueberries for years, knowing they are great for brain health (as I've heard so often on seminars) - but looking up the carbs on good things like this is killing me. Even my dandelion/ chicory teas have 3-5 carbs in them - as I look at the package. (with no added sweetners or cream or anything!) And I added that to my diet for gut health reasons.
I guessed that my sweet potato and the gluten free muesli or occasional oatmeal was going to add up - but to take up half the carbs in your day - wow!
The sad part about seeing the restrictions in the keto part of this is that it is taking out so many foods with excellent nutritional value.

I am wondering since it's been 3 months since you originally posted... how are YOU DOING?
And, I agree with you and other posters that it is also important to live a good, fulfilled life.

Patty

[TCHC]

Hi Patty H

I find the carb counting a real problem for lots of people (me included), so I go at it a different way.
When I first got into keto, before finding Dr. Bredesen, I took a look at Dr. Josh Axe and found that most of his recipes had more than 50g carbs in them. Never mind over the course of a day! What I've found is that I don't count the carbs in non-starchy veg. I just eat loads of them (at least 1/2 plate for every meal) and then I've cut out any wheat products, starchy veg, rice, etc. And I'm consistently in ketosis.
Dr. Bredesen seems to be saying that you need to be in ketosis at 1.5mmol/L to 4mmol at least once per day. You're going to flex up and down with the amount of ketones, but as long as your body is making them, your brain can be using them.
I've noticed that different people can handle different amounts of carbs (and even different foods) and still be in ketosis.
I usually recommend starting really strict: loads of non starchy veg, not too much protein (check your needs here: https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... our%20hand.)
and lots of lovely healthy fats. Test, and if you're in ketosis, great! Give it a few days, then start testing different foods: Can you handle a little fruit? (start with the lowest sugar fruits - https://nchc.org/health/what-fruits-are ... 20diabetes.)
Try a little and test your ketones a few hours later or before your next meal. If you're still in ketosis, great. And just do some trial and error til you're confident on what suits you.

I hope that helps!
Good luck!
Let us know how you're getting on.

Lindsey

[TPE]

Moderator Note: Edited to quote "pineapplesage"

Hello Pineapplesage,
and anyone else on this thread. I am new to this forum - as of last week, and have read a LOT!

I was looking how to post a question and came across your post, and read throughout. I have a LOT of similarities as you do. I think I eat very healthy - at least half if not more organics, lots of vegetables, some fruit, and some fish every week - usually salmon and sardines; very little dairy and red meat. Dark chocolate has always been my favorite.
And I've exercised most days of my life since I was in middle school.
A lot in common.

I have been following Dr. Gundry's diet now for about 6 years. It has made some nice changes in the way I feel - from learning about the lectins. But it took a while to learn what I COULD EAT, after finding out all I COULD NOT eat! Talk about hangry! I just recently added cucs and tomatoes back in - peeling and de-seeding the way described in this post and in his book. I also regularly fast for 15-16 hours, without a problem.

My Mom currently has 24 hour care at her home, due to her Alzheimers. And I manage her care and stop there quite often. I am very strong willed and do NOT want to do anything to make myself more prone to getting this disease.
I understand that much of it is epigenetics - and the info shared here and from Dr. Bredesen is wonderful.

I have certifications in Naturopathics, nutrition and herbalism. I have owned a company (until last year) in Homecare - taking care of and teaching about dementia and other illnesses, as our staff cared for people.
I have tried to start the Apollo Health/ Bredesen approach with my Mom earlier this year, but she was not interested, and quite frankly, a bit far down that road.

One of the important things I've learned in my natural health studies is that the exact solution depends upon where EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON was when they started this process. For example, Vitamin D may be a game changer for someone in their health, but that was likely someone who was very deficient in that Vitamin and it had huge effects on their health. If I, or someone else took that same Vitamin, we may not feel any different - because our bodies were already getting what they needed.

This week, I started measuring ketones via blood and started counting carbs. Oh MY GOSH... I don't know how anyone can eat only 50 carbs in a day! I do not have any weight to lose, and am shocked to find the amount of carbs in vegetables, as I look them up, even cauliflower, broccoli, kale, spinach, brussel sprouts and so many more vegetables add up to have so many carbs!
And I've been eating wild blueberries for years, knowing they are great for brain health (as I've heard so often on seminars) - but looking up the carbs on good things like this is killing me. Even my dandelion/ chicory teas have 3-5 carbs in them - as I look at the package. (with no added sweetners or cream or anything!) And I added that to my diet for gut health reasons.
I guessed that my sweet potato and the gluten free muesli or occasional oatmeal was going to add up - but to take up half the carbs in your day - wow!
The sad part about seeing the restrictions in the keto part of this is that it is taking out so many foods with excellent nutritional value.

I am wondering since it's been 3 months since you originally posted... how are YOU DOING?
And, I agree with you and other posters that it is also important to live a good, fulfilled life.

Patty

Hello, Patty H,

Thank you for joining our site and posting in the forum.

I’m TPE, a Support Team Intern at ApoE4.info. I have the good fortune of welcoming you to the site and showing you around, so to speak. It sounds like you may have already taken a bit of a tour yourself! There’s so much to read and learn here.

As you have explored various forums you have already discovered similarities with members as well as tips from others. It’s one of the beauties of this site. You are not alone. ApoE4.info is filled with compassionate, knowledgeable people eager to share and support.

Your strong will, curiosity, certifications and compassion has not only provided you with knowledge to help yourself, but your mother, your former staff, clients and, already, one of our members. Thank you.

You are correct, cognitive care is an individualized process. You have been a student of this approach for six years. You understand the power of epigenetics and have been living an active lifestyle since you were a child. Carb counting can indeed be daunting, but TCHC is right, measuring ketones provides important data for you. We’re all unique. That includes the amount of carbs that we can consume and be in ketosis. It might not always be perfect, but you’re learning and making progress.

As a Support Team Intern, I can share several tools & resources you may have yet to discover to help you get the most out of your experience on this site. The Primer is a detailed and informative resource written by a practicing M.D. with ApoE4/4. It includes information about the biochemistry of the ApoE4 gene and offers a variety of research-based prevention strategies.

Some helpful tips to navigate the site include the How-To Guide. It includes topics such as navigating the forum, private messaging, and searching. One great tip is using the quote (") button when replying to a post. Using the button will automatically alert the member of your response.

If you are interested in learning more about other members check out Our Stories.

The Wiki Main Page is also a treasure trove of information to explore.

Again, I am so glad you joined our forum. Thanks for sharing your story. Keep us updated and take good care.

Warmly,

Therese (TPE)

[Patty H]

Thank you so much for your welcome and response.
And, yes, I am a researcher and doer at heart and have found a wealth of information here to add to my current! The Dr. who wrote The Primer is a brilliant Dr - taking the time to put that all together in an easy to read and understand format!
thank you,
Patty