Me again!

Kikiwebb
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 9:00 am

Me again!

Post by Kikiwebb »

Thank you everyone for your comments about good fats for carriers and also ketones. After reading everything you sent me I just want to clarify that Bresden does not think carriers should have any MCT or coconut oil and also should not supplement with ke tones. They need to get into ketosis themselves?
I also saw a lot of research about going keto does not help your risk if you are a carrier. I went into a rabbit hole with research. Many credible doctors and studies show that simply having a healthy Mediterranean diet is helpful and going into ketosis could actually do harm. All this information is very confusing. A few top researchers claim that Bresden is now just trying to make money and that people should not do extreme diets, especially carriers.
User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Me again!

Post by TheresaB »

Kikiwebb wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:24 am I also saw a lot of research about going keto does not help your risk if you are a carrier. I went into a rabbit hole with research. Many credible doctors and studies show that simply having a healthy Mediterranean diet is helpful and going into ketosis could actually do harm. All this information is very confusing. A few top researchers claim that Bresden is now just trying to make money and that people should not do extreme diets, especially carriers.
Can you share the papers that cite ketones are not beneficial at reducing Alzheimer’s risk for ApoE4 carriers?

I’m curious as to how anyone can say a keto diet is harmful when there are so many ways of doing a keto diet. Keto can be all carnivore, keto can be strictly rice and potatoes if calorie restricted, and keto can be everything in between (like Dr Bredesen’s KetoFlex approach). There are healthful ways of doing keto and there are damaging ways of doing keto.

I don’t see ketones as harmful, it’s how a ketogenic diet is pursued (or supplemented) that can be harmful. There are two main fuels the body can burn, ketones and glucose. Of these two fuels:
• Ketones generate more energy than glucose.
• Ketones burn “cleaner” than glucose. They produce fewer Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) and secondary free radicals. So ketones are “kinder” to the mitochondria, and mitochondrial dysfunction is a major determinant in how we age and one of the most prominent features of Alzheimer’s Disease
• Ketones increase Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF)
• A ketogenic diet reduces hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia (insulin sensitivity is very important for ApoE4s)
• Ketones work as signaling molecules to improve certain metabolic pathways
• Ketones stabilize brain network communication
• Ketones increase GABA synthesis
• Ketones generate more butyrate if the diet includes adequate dietary fiber. Butyrate is a metabolite produced by intestinal bacteria that holds numerous health benefits, one of which is keeping the gut lining healthy and functioning properly. The gut-brain connection is strong and a healthy gut is important for a healthy brain.
• And more….

Ketones are especially beneficial for ApoE4s.
Glucose metabolism decreases for everyone in healthy aging but the decrease is more pronounced in ApoE4s. This decrease starts to happen decades before symptoms occur, but because the brain compensates we don't notice it. When the brain can no longer compensate, cognitive deficits occur and the brain has already shrunk in size. Although ketones cannot completely replace glucose as fuel for the brian (it is not a cure), ketones do provide a fuel that the brain can use even when glucose uptake is impaired.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4
mike
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:55 pm
Location: CA - Sonoma County

Re: Me again!

Post by mike »

Kikiwebb wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 5:24 am I also saw a lot of research about going keto does not help your risk if you are a carrier.
Except for the "fuel for brian" quote :P , Theresa is spot on. I would add a couple of things. ApoE4s can better utilize ketones than ApoE3s. What did humans eat before the 3 variant showed up? Basically a keto diet. It may be better to produce your own ketones, but some folks find it easier to kick start with exogenous ketones. Also, it can sometimes help those with mild AD symptoms.
Sonoma Mike
4/4
User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Me again!

Post by TheresaB »

mike wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:03 am Except for the "fuel for brian" quote ,
OOPS! :lol: :oops: :lol: Good catch. Guess I need more ketones.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4
Kikiwebb
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 9:00 am

Re: Me again!

Post by Kikiwebb »

I a SO relieved to read all this!!! I dont have the articles saved - I did google searches for HOURS and thats when came across the information against Breseden and Keto. With both my parents having AD - I am just anxious to do the right things!!! My mom is a 3/3.. and dad 4/4.. they BOTH got it! how odd?
mike
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:55 pm
Location: CA - Sonoma County

Re: Me again!

Post by mike »

So, your mom gave you a 3 and your dad a 4, making you 3/4. It is not that odd, since there are more folks who get AD who are 3/3 than those that have 4/4. It's not odd because there are many more 3/3s than 4/4s in the world. WebMD says 15-25% of people have 3/4, and only 2% have 4/4. Doing the math and 3/3s are about 73-83% of the population. So there about 35-40 times the number of 3/3s compared to 4/4s. The ApoE gene is only part of the story. The rest is life style. You can have 3/4 or 4/4 and and take care of yourself and avoid getting AD. Likewise, you can have 3/3 and not take care of yourself and then get AD.
Sonoma Mike
4/4
EA1979
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2024 3:14 pm

Re: Me again!

Post by EA1979 »

Is there evidence that a ketogenic diet is effective for Alzheimer's prevention, separate from Alzheimer's treatment? I can see how, if someone has been diagnosed with MCI or Alzheimer's that a ketogenic diet might help (assuming impaired glucose utilization). But, is there any evidence that following a ketogenic diet for cognitively healthy individuals may reduce risk?

Thanks!
User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Me again!

Post by TheresaB »

EA1979 wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 12:22 pm Is there evidence that a ketogenic diet is effective for Alzheimer's prevention, separate from Alzheimer's treatment? I can see how, if someone has been diagnosed with MCI or Alzheimer's that a ketogenic diet might help (assuming impaired glucose utilization). But, is there any evidence that following a ketogenic diet for cognitively healthy individuals may reduce risk?
Yes.
TheresaB wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 7:02 am • Ketones generate more energy than glucose.
• Ketones burn “cleaner” than glucose. They produce fewer Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) and secondary free radicals. So ketones are “kinder” to the mitochondria, and mitochondrial dysfunction is a major determinant in how we age and one of the most prominent features of Alzheimer’s Disease
• Ketones increase Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF)
• A ketogenic diet reduces hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia (insulin sensitivity is very important for ApoE4s)
• Ketones work as signaling molecules to improve certain metabolic pathways
• Ketones stabilize brain network communication
• Ketones increase GABA synthesis
• Ketones generate more butyrate if the diet includes adequate dietary fiber. Butyrate is a metabolite produced by intestinal bacteria that holds numerous health benefits, one of which is keeping the gut lining healthy and functioning properly. The gut-brain connection is strong and a healthy gut is important for a healthy brain.
• And more….

Ketones are especially beneficial for ApoE4s.
Glucose metabolism decreases for everyone in healthy aging but the decrease is more pronounced in ApoE4s. This decrease starts to happen decades before symptoms occur, but because the brain compensates we don't notice it. When the brain can no longer compensate, cognitive deficits occur and the brain has already shrunk in size. Although ketones cannot completely replace glucose as fuel for the brian (it is not a cure), ketones do provide a fuel that the brain can use even when glucose uptake is impaired.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4
User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1676
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Me again!

Post by TheresaB »

EA1979 wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 12:22 pm Is there evidence that a ketogenic diet is effective for Alzheimer's prevention, separate from Alzheimer's treatment? I can see how, if someone has been diagnosed with MCI or Alzheimer's that a ketogenic diet might help (assuming impaired glucose utilization). But, is there any evidence that following a ketogenic diet for cognitively healthy individuals may reduce risk?

Thanks!
Yes.

Ketogenic diet and BHB rescue the fall of long-term potentiation in an Alzheimer’s mouse model and stimulates synaptic plasticity pathway enzymes
The Ketogenic Diet (KD) improves memory and longevity in aged C57BL/6 mice. We tested 7 months KD vs. control diet (CD) in the mouse Alzheimer’s Disease (AD) model APP/PS1. KD significantly rescued Long-Term-Potentiation (LTP) to wild-type levels, not by changing Amyloid-β (Aβ) levels. KD’s ‘main actor’ is thought to be Beta-Hydroxy-butyrate (BHB) whose levels rose significantly in KD vs. CD mice, and BHB itself significantly rescued LTP in APP/PS1 hippocampi. KD’s 6 most significant pathways induced in brains by RNAseq all related to Synaptic Plasticity. KD induced significant increases in synaptic plasticity enzymes p-ERK and p-CREB in both sexes, and of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) in APP/PS1 females. We suggest KD rescues LTP through BHB’s enhancement of synaptic plasticity. LTP falls in Mild-Cognitive Impairment (MCI) of human AD. KD and BHB, because they are an approved diet and supplement respectively, may be most therapeutically and translationally relevant to the MCI phase of Alzheimer’s Disease.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4
User avatar
floramaria
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:22 am
Location: Northern New Mexico

Re: Me again!

Post by floramaria »

EA1979 wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 12:22 pm Is there evidence that a ketogenic diet is effective for Alzheimer's prevention, separate from Alzheimer's treatment? I can see how, if someone has been diagnosed with MCI or Alzheimer's that a ketogenic diet might help (assuming impaired glucose utilization). But, is there any evidence that following a ketogenic diet for cognitively healthy individuals may reduce risk?

Thanks!
HI EA1979, This answer will not point to direct evidence that a ketogenic diet will reduce risk. And I am not a scientist or a doctor. My personal opinion is that if you take into consideration that changes in the brain take place well before symptoms that would be diagnosed begin to show, then you might consider the ketogenic diet treating asymptomatic changes in the brain that might even rise to the level of early AD. Many people report feeling sharper on a ketogenic diet, even though they are cognitively healthy.
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
ReCODE 2.0 Health Coach with Apollo Health
Post Reply