New member - Meat free keto

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
Post Reply
sophielou
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm

New member - Meat free keto

Post by sophielou »

Hello everyone,

My name is Sophie, I’m 50 years old, and have recently found out that I am e3/e4. This did not come as much of a surprise, since both my father and his twin sister have been suffering from Alzheimer’s for many years, as was my grandmother at least 10 years before she died. They all have suffered from high blood pressure as well, which I understand can also be related to Apoe4. I have two cousins already on blood pressure medication : one is my age and the other is 10 years younger. Could this gene variant explain this as well ?

I always suspected there was a genetic factor involved where my family is concerned, but all the information I came across mentioned genetic factors in only the early onset type. I found out about Apoe4 only a few months ago when I was looking into early detection of the disease for myself. I had one of those “ah-ha!” moments. I did not hesitate to order the test, and waiting for the results was pure torture. But I consider myself lucky in a sense that I only have the one e4. Through reading your stories, I see that many people in this community are e4/e4, which must be a heavy load to bear.

I have been my father’s natural caregiver for the last 5 years, and so have seen first hand how terrible this disease can be; how it completely upends your life at a time in life when you should be free to enjoy it, and how the person becomes just a shadow of what they once were. I wish I knew at the beginning of his illness what I know now, about possible ways to reverse the symptoms. I feel like I have already lost my father, and do not want my kids to have to face a similar situation with me. I am also thinking about how I may have passed this variant onto them as well :(

After reading Dr. Bredesen’s book, I was left with more questions than answers about how to eat, and so have had to turn to other resources to really understand the Keto diet. I recently discovered Liz MacDowell, and I love her flexible and intuitive approach. I just ordered her most recent cookbook : Plant Forward Keto. I’m eager to get myself on the right path, but there’s so much to implement that I realize it cannot all be done at once. I am gradually getting into counting carbs, fasting and monitoring my ketone levels. I am fairly active already; I enjoy yoga, cycling, yoga, and have an elliptical machine for rainy days.

It has been such a comfort to me to find this online community! I am so grateful to be a part of it. It will take me a while to read all your stories, but I look forward to it. I am presently reading through the primer, which is so well laid out (thank-you!). I may finally be able to clearly explain to those around me why I am changing the way I eat; avoiding sugar and too many carbs, and fasting :)

I will eventually post some specific questions in the forum, but for now here are the subjects I am interested in finding out more about. If anyone has particular knowledge in these areas, please let me know!
  • Meat free / dairy free keto (so far a challenge, when I manage to stay below my carb limit, I see I am too low on other macros : fat and protein).
  • The most important blood tests to ask for (I have a doctor’s appointment next week, and there is no way I am handing them Dr. Bredesen’s list!)
  • What are the best tools for carb counting out there? (for example, free apps)
Thanks everyone for being there and I hope to exchange more with you on these subjects and others very soon!
Sophie
TerriLynnC
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2024 11:52 am

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by TerriLynnC »

Sophie,
Good morning and welcome to the ApoE4 info site. My name is TerriLynn, and I am an intern here to assist you. You have definitely shown us your courage in sharing your personal Alzheimer's journey today. It takes a lot of strength and where-with-all to reverse roles and become a "parent" to your Dad. You are doing a wonderful job and I applaud you for your resilient spirit. Actively seeking resources to address your ApoE4 status says a lot about your desire to learn.

Here are some resources that may assist you:
1. Carbohydrate counting Apps available in the App store:
Carb Genius/Carb Tracker/Carb Manager
2. National Institute article on preventive dietary prevention in ApoE4
Precision Nutrition for Alzheimer’s Prevention in ApoE4 Carriers
3. Click on the "Prevention and Treatment" tab under Forums and you will find several posts regarding recommended blood tests

I hope that these resources will assist you with your questions today. Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with today. Again, thank you so much for your courage and willingness to share your personal journey!

Warmly,
TerriLynn Clark
Caregiver for Mother with Alzheimer's Disease 2016-2020
Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach
NF52
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 3102
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:41 am
Location: Eastern U.S.

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by NF52 »

sophielou wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:15 am Hello everyone,

My name is Sophie, I’m 50 years old, and have recently found out that I am e3/e4. This did not come as much of a surprise, since both my father and his twin sister have been suffering from Alzheimer’s for many years, as was my grandmother at least 10 years before she died. They all have suffered from high blood pressure as well, which I understand can also be related to Apoe4. I have two cousins already on blood pressure medication : one is my age and the other is 10 years younger. Could this gene variant explain this as well ?
....
After reading Dr. Bredesen’s book, I was left with more questions than answers about how to eat, and so have had to turn to other resources to really understand the Keto diet. I recently discovered Liz MacDowell, and I love her flexible and intuitive approach. I just ordered her most recent cookbook : Plant Forward Keto. I’m eager to get myself on the right path, but there’s so much to implement that I realize it cannot all be done at once. I am gradually getting into counting carbs, fasting and monitoring my ketone levels. I am fairly active already; I enjoy yoga, cycling, yoga, and have an elliptical machine for rainy days.

....

I will eventually post some specific questions in the forum, but for now here are the subjects I am interested in finding out more about. If anyone has particular knowledge in these areas, please let me know!
  • Meat free / dairy free keto (so far a challenge, when I manage to stay below my carb limit, I see I am too low on other macros : fat and protein).
  • The most important blood tests to ask for (I have a doctor’s appointment next week, and there is no way I am handing them Dr. Bredesen’s list!)
  • What are the best tools for carb counting out there? (for example, free apps)
Thanks everyone for being there and I hope to exchange more with you on these subjects and others very soon!
Sophie
Hi Sophie!,

With one copy of ApoE 4 and a great exercise and diet plan (including meat-free keto), you are in great shape at age 50 to change your family's unfortunate history. Like you, I have a family history with heart disease, vascular strokes, high blood pressure and Alzheimer's. Your question about whether ApoE 4 could be related to the blood pressure issue is a great one! The answer is likely "Yes", since for reasons that scientists are still fully uncovering, we are more prone to coronary artery disease, which can cause plaques in the blood vessels around the heart and in the carotid arteries that lead to the brain. That can cause high blood pressure, which isn't good for the heart or brain. It's good that your relatives are being seen and treated for that to prevent problems before they happen. If you also are able to avoid that, which a plant-based diet might allow, you will also be helping your brain avoid Alzheimer's.

I think that Tincup, one of our Moderators, eats a mostly plant-based diet, and has recommended Cronometer as a free app. I've used it also, since under Macros and Targets, it allows you to select "Keto Calculator" and then Rigorous, Moderate, Relaxed or Custom for your nutrients. You can specify both how many grams of lean protein per day you want and how many grams of non-fiber carbs. For women in mid-life and later, getting enough protein is good for our brains! I'm copying Tincup in, for any specific suggestions.
Tincup wrote:
We have a big Wiki section on Ketosis, and this part has some info that may be helpful about getting enough of the right nutrients:
https://wiki.apoe4.info/wiki/Ketosis_an ... genic Diet
Dr. Stavia has some helpful recommendations about biomarkers. Given your age, you may want to ask for a full lipid profile, Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, iron and/or ferritin--and if you have questions about your own blood pressure, a referral for a cardiac stress test.
Primer: Biomarkers

You've got lots of time to be your own best bio-hacker! Keep posting and keep us posted!

Nancy
4/4 and still an optimist!
TerriLynnC
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2024 11:52 am

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by TerriLynnC »

Sophie,
I am hoping the information you received today arms you with the some of the answers you are seeking! Please reach out if you have any further questions.

TerriLynn
Caregiver for Mother with Alzheimer's Disease 2016-2020
Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach
User avatar
Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 3623
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by Tincup »

NF52 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:16 am
sophielou wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:15 am
I think that Tincup, one of our Moderators, eats a mostly plant-based diet, and has recommended Cronometer as a free app. I've used it also, since under Macros and Targets, it allows you to select "Keto Calculator" and then Rigorous, Moderate, Relaxed or Custom for your nutrients. You can specify both how many grams of lean protein per day you want and how many grams of non-fiber carbs. For women in mid-life and later, getting enough protein is good for our brains! I'm copying Tincup in, for any specific suggestions.
Tincup wrote:
I'm a 69 year old E3/4 male with a 4/4 wife. I was high carb vegan for about 17 years. Around 2007 I tried going vegan/low carb and found it difficult. In 2009, I keto adapted and gave up being vegan. As Nancy says, I do eat a lot of plants.

Sarcopenia is a risk I pay a lot of attention to. I try to give my system at least 2 signals/day from protein for muscle protein synthesis. I think about protein, not as a single element, but as how much of specific amino acids I need. An issue with plant based protein is you need to eat a variety of protein sources to get the required amino acids and this typically requires more grams of total protein as well as calories than what is required from meat sources. I've been pescatarian for quite a few years now (and keto adapted since 2009). What I commonly do it consume 10 grams of an essential amino acid (EAA) supplement (from fermented vegan sources and based on a now expired patent) either right before or right after my morning workout. This and the workout kicks off the signal for muscle protein synthesis. My break fast meal, around 10A, is from plant sources, but the synthesis signal is already covered by the EAA's. This usually includes nuts, like pistachio, macadamia, filbert & brazil. I also include large serving of fermented foods, including natto, miso, soy yogurt I make and ferment myself from organic soy beans that is fermented from the ATCC PTA 6475 strain of lactobacillus reuteri, with a target of increasing oxytocin. The bacteria is from the Osfortis product capsules and the idea comes from a William Davis (author of Super Gut) recipe for a dairy yogurt. Other fermented foods include sauerkraut, kimchi, and cranberry juice fermented with saccharomyces boulardii (another Davis recipe). My evening meals typically include a generous serving of white fish or shellfish for another protein synthesis signal. They will also commonly have steamed veggies and a very large salad (based on Dr. Terry Wahls' suggestion in her book & website- 3 cups of leafy greens, 3 cups of sulfur rich vegetables and 3 cups of color rich fruits and vegetables). While I've been keto adapted since 2009, my diet macros now would not be considered keto by most. I can and do eat several hundred grams of carbs on many days. However I always test positive for beta hydroxybutyrate on a morning fingerstick test (normally 0.5 - 0.9 mmol/L). While far from no fat, I do limit fat intake as I find my fasting glucose is materially lower when I do. So I'm not really high carb, high protein or high fat. Much, but not all of my diet is plant based and I likely maintain ketosis because of exercise and time restricted eating (16 or more hours of fasting/day).

Here are comments from Dr. Gundry on implementing a plant based diet. I do follow Gundry's low lectin suggestions (and have had 11 consults with him) as I've had autoimmune issues since birth and his program got me 85% better. I got another 10% better using the Coca Pulse test as described here.

These are notes with some of the fermentation recipes
Super Gut notes.docx
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Tincup
E3,E4
sophielou
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by sophielou »

TerriLynnC wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:15 am Sophie,
Good morning and welcome to the ApoE4 info site. My name is TerriLynn, and I am an intern here to assist you. You have definitely shown us your courage in sharing your personal Alzheimer's journey today. It takes a lot of strength and where-with-all to reverse roles and become a "parent" to your Dad. You are doing a wonderful job and I applaud you for your resilient spirit. Actively seeking resources to address your ApoE4 status says a lot about your desire to learn.

Here are some resources that may assist you:
1. Carbohydrate counting Apps available in the App store:
Carb Genius/Carb Tracker/Carb Manager
2. National Institute article on preventive dietary prevention in ApoE4
Precision Nutrition for Alzheimer’s Prevention in ApoE4 Carriers
3. Click on the "Prevention and Treatment" tab under Forums and you will find several posts regarding recommended blood tests

I hope that these resources will assist you with your questions today. Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with today. Again, thank you so much for your courage and willingness to share your personal journey!

Warmly,
TerriLynn Clark
Hello TerriLynn,

Thank-you so much for replying so quickly and for all the encouragements. I feel so welcome here!
The information and links you have sent me are just what I was looking for :D
I have some reading to do!

Sincerely,
Sophie
sophielou
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by sophielou »

NF52 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:16 am
sophielou wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:15 am Hello everyone,

My name is Sophie, I’m 50 years old, and have recently found out that I am e3/e4. This did not come as much of a surprise, since both my father and his twin sister have been suffering from Alzheimer’s for many years, as was my grandmother at least 10 years before she died. They all have suffered from high blood pressure as well, which I understand can also be related to Apoe4. I have two cousins already on blood pressure medication : one is my age and the other is 10 years younger. Could this gene variant explain this as well ?
....
After reading Dr. Bredesen’s book, I was left with more questions than answers about how to eat, and so have had to turn to other resources to really understand the Keto diet. I recently discovered Liz MacDowell, and I love her flexible and intuitive approach. I just ordered her most recent cookbook : Plant Forward Keto. I’m eager to get myself on the right path, but there’s so much to implement that I realize it cannot all be done at once. I am gradually getting into counting carbs, fasting and monitoring my ketone levels. I am fairly active already; I enjoy yoga, cycling, yoga, and have an elliptical machine for rainy days.

....

I will eventually post some specific questions in the forum, but for now here are the subjects I am interested in finding out more about. If anyone has particular knowledge in these areas, please let me know!
  • Meat free / dairy free keto (so far a challenge, when I manage to stay below my carb limit, I see I am too low on other macros : fat and protein).
  • The most important blood tests to ask for (I have a doctor’s appointment next week, and there is no way I am handing them Dr. Bredesen’s list!)
  • What are the best tools for carb counting out there? (for example, free apps)
Thanks everyone for being there and I hope to exchange more with you on these subjects and others very soon!
Sophie
Hi Sophie!,

With one copy of ApoE 4 and a great exercise and diet plan (including meat-free keto), you are in great shape at age 50 to change your family's unfortunate history. Like you, I have a family history with heart disease, vascular strokes, high blood pressure and Alzheimer's. Your question about whether ApoE 4 could be related to the blood pressure issue is a great one! The answer is likely "Yes", since for reasons that scientists are still fully uncovering, we are more prone to coronary artery disease, which can cause plaques in the blood vessels around the heart and in the carotid arteries that lead to the brain. That can cause high blood pressure, which isn't good for the heart or brain. It's good that your relatives are being seen and treated for that to prevent problems before they happen. If you also are able to avoid that, which a plant-based diet might allow, you will also be helping your brain avoid Alzheimer's.

I think that Tincup, one of our Moderators, eats a mostly plant-based diet, and has recommended Cronometer as a free app. I've used it also, since under Macros and Targets, it allows you to select "Keto Calculator" and then Rigorous, Moderate, Relaxed or Custom for your nutrients. You can specify both how many grams of lean protein per day you want and how many grams of non-fiber carbs. For women in mid-life and later, getting enough protein is good for our brains! I'm copying Tincup in, for any specific suggestions.
Tincup wrote:
We have a big Wiki section on Ketosis, and this part has some info that may be helpful about getting enough of the right nutrients:
https://wiki.apoe4.info/wiki/Ketosis_an ... genic Diet
Dr. Stavia has some helpful recommendations about biomarkers. Given your age, you may want to ask for a full lipid profile, Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, iron and/or ferritin--and if you have questions about your own blood pressure, a referral for a cardiac stress test.
Primer: Biomarkers

You've got lots of time to be your own best bio-hacker! Keep posting and keep us posted!

Nancy
Hi Nancy,

Thank-you for taking the time to respond to my post; I really appreciate all the encouragements! Yes, I do think I'm finally on the right track, but I wish I'd started sooner.
I think I better understand about Apoe4 and increased risk of coronary artery disease, leading to high blood pressure.
I will definitely read the section on Ketosis, it will be next of my list :)
Thank-you also for the advice on biomarkers (I am taking notes!) and for putting me in touch with Tincup; he has already sent me a lot of great information.
I'm glad to read that although you are 4/4, you are optimistic (and rightly so!). So many brave people here :)

Best,
Sophie
sophielou
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm

Re: New member - Meat free keto

Post by sophielou »

Tincup wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:31 am
NF52 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:16 am
sophielou wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 7:15 am
I think that Tincup, one of our Moderators, eats a mostly plant-based diet, and has recommended Cronometer as a free app. I've used it also, since under Macros and Targets, it allows you to select "Keto Calculator" and then Rigorous, Moderate, Relaxed or Custom for your nutrients. You can specify both how many grams of lean protein per day you want and how many grams of non-fiber carbs. For women in mid-life and later, getting enough protein is good for our brains! I'm copying Tincup in, for any specific suggestions.
Tincup wrote:
I'm a 69 year old E3/4 male with a 4/4 wife. I was high carb vegan for about 17 years. Around 2007 I tried going vegan/low carb and found it difficult. In 2009, I keto adapted and gave up being vegan. As Nancy says, I do eat a lot of plants.

Sarcopenia is a risk I pay a lot of attention to. I try to give my system at least 2 signals/day from protein for muscle protein synthesis. I think about protein, not as a single element, but as how much of specific amino acids I need. An issue with plant based protein is you need to eat a variety of protein sources to get the required amino acids and this typically requires more grams of total protein as well as calories than what is required from meat sources. I've been pescatarian for quite a few years now (and keto adapted since 2009). What I commonly do it consume 10 grams of an essential amino acid (EAA) supplement (from fermented vegan sources and based on a now expired patent) either right before or right after my morning workout. This and the workout kicks off the signal for muscle protein synthesis. My break fast meal, around 10A, is from plant sources, but the synthesis signal is already covered by the EAA's. This usually includes nuts, like pistachio, macadamia, filbert & brazil. I also include large serving of fermented foods, including natto, miso, soy yogurt I make and ferment myself from organic soy beans that is fermented from the ATCC PTA 6475 strain of lactobacillus reuteri, with a target of increasing oxytocin. The bacteria is from the Osfortis product capsules and the idea comes from a William Davis (author of Super Gut) recipe for a dairy yogurt. Other fermented foods include sauerkraut, kimchi, and cranberry juice fermented with saccharomyces boulardii (another Davis recipe). My evening meals typically include a generous serving of white fish or shellfish for another protein synthesis signal. They will also commonly have steamed veggies and a very large salad (based on Dr. Terry Wahls' suggestion in her book & website- 3 cups of leafy greens, 3 cups of sulfur rich vegetables and 3 cups of color rich fruits and vegetables). While I've been keto adapted since 2009, my diet macros now would not be considered keto by most. I can and do eat several hundred grams of carbs on many days. However I always test positive for beta hydroxybutyrate on a morning fingerstick test (normally 0.5 - 0.9 mmol/L). While far from no fat, I do limit fat intake as I find my fasting glucose is materially lower when I do. So I'm not really high carb, high protein or high fat. Much, but not all of my diet is plant based and I likely maintain ketosis because of exercise and time restricted eating (16 or more hours of fasting/day).

Here are comments from Dr. Gundry on implementing a plant based diet. I do follow Gundry's low lectin suggestions (and have had 11 consults with him) as I've had autoimmune issues since birth and his program got me 85% better. I got another 10% better using the Coca Pulse test as described here.

These are notes with some of the fermentation recipes Super Gut notes.docx
Hello Tincup,

Nice to meet you! I really appreciate you taking the time to share all this information with me, you have been very generous and so helpful.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife being 4/4, but I trust that she is in good hands! And I understand that following a protocol like Dr. Bredesen's can reduce risks by 80% :D

Sounds like you have been experimenting for years, and refining your diet (which is primarily plant-based) while remaining in ketosis through exercise and fasting; I'm so grateful that I can benefit from your experience. I am also trying to fast 15-16 hours, and so far this working well, I feel great (except for weight loss, as it often means eating only two meals a day).

I wonder if I'll end up giving up on veganism. I would eat fish if it wasn't for the fact that fishing pratices aren't sustainable. Being vegan for me has a lot to do with reducing my carbon footprint.

I also worry about Sarcopenia; there's a history of Osteoporosis in my family, I'm a small person, and am already loosing weight since transitioning to keto. I should probably start doing weight training, but have been hoping that yoga is enough! I will read more about the different sources of plant-based protein and required amino-acids, sounds interesting. I'm not sure I fully understand about protein synthesis signals, but I can look it up.

You have inspired me to eat more fermented foods (Dr. Bredesen also talks about their virtues). I eat tempeh and I LOVE kimchi and miso. There's a lacto-fermentation shop in my neighbourhood; a little expensive, but I do splurge there once in awhile. I wish I had time to make it myself, but with work and taking care of my dad I just can't seem to find the time. I'd be interested in trying to make the soy yogourt though, that could be a start!

I will look up Dr. Terry Wahls' salad suggestion, sounds very balanced. I did read Dr. Gundry's book about ten years ago; it may be time to pick it up again. While reading Dr. Bredesen, I remember thinking that both books had a lot in common (and later on he referred to Dr. Gundry, sounds like they're pals).

I will reread your message carefully and take notes, thanks again !

Best,
Sophie
Post Reply