Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

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Interesting. Mine was normal while doing Atkins. But increased to borderline high after being on a more balanced, "healthy" diet.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

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But surely we shouldn't give up vegetables. What would we have left? Just fish. :cry:
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Re: RE: Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

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Nancy wrote:But surely we shouldn't give up vegetables. What would we have left? Just fish. :cry:
We did ask Dayspring this somewhere on this thread and he said that, in his opinion, the amount of plant stanols in plants isn't enough to cause significant adverse clinical effects.
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Re: RE: Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by GenePoole0304 »

Stavia wrote:
Nancy wrote:But surely we shouldn't give up vegetables. What would we have left? Just fish. :cry:
We did ask Dayspring this somewhere on this thread and he said that, in his opinion, the amount of plant stanols in plants isn't enough to cause significant adverse clinical effects.
I would prefer to see that statement as it is counter to a few things I know he said.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by GenePoole0304 »

Stavia wrote:is the number clinically relevant?
In the context of low cardiovascular risk should one be worried about a sitosterol number?
Good question...
could the answer be revealed below?

"CONCLUSIONS:

The establishment of the biological variation for these biomarkers enables their use in the interpretation of results from clinical trials and lipid lowering treatment of patients at risk for cardiovascular disease in clinical practice."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24394292
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by Stavia »

GenePoole0304 wrote:
Stavia wrote:
Nancy wrote:But surely we shouldn't give up vegetables. What would we have left? Just fish. :cry:
We did ask Dayspring this somewhere on this thread and he said that, in his opinion, the amount of plant stanols in plants isn't enough to cause significant adverse clinical effects.
I would prefer to see that statement as it is counter to a few things I know he said.
Its somewhere in the thread. I'm not trawling thru it now.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by Julie G »

Provacative discussion! Thanks, all, for weighing in. Gene, Stavia recalled correctly. This is from Dr. Dayspring from page 4 of this thread:
To Julie - It is impossible for a vegan not to eat phytosterols. My point is that high phytosterol concentrations can be potentially atherogenic. The real concern is that hyperabsorbers of cholesterol (who will also hyperabsorb phytosterols) should never use phytosterol supplements as a functional food to reduce apoB or LDL-C or LDL-P. For thorough tutorials on the complex nuances of sterols and stanols go to our teaching web site w http://www.lecturepad.org w and search for sterols. Rather complex topic - understood by few.

Eat all the veggies you want - but all with E4 alleles have the potential to be hyperabsorbers of sterols and thus need to check absorption/synthesis status at baseline and after therapeutic endeavors.
I found this link to be among the more instructive in helping me to determine which primarily whole foods contain sitosterol. EVOO is one, as well as avocado, nuts, even dark chocolate. ALL of the foods we tend to eat to avoid SFA. Hmmm. For folks eating a more balanced diet, I think Dr. Dayspring is correct, but for those of us who hyperabsorb sitosterol to be using plant sterols to achieve ketosis, I can see how we could get into trouble.

Stavia, great question: does it matter? Maybe, if it drives up LDL-P and ApoB and one has evidence of CAD. In the case of the former without the latter, who knows? Nancy, another great comment. If sitosterols (plants & plant fats) raise lipids, then what do we eat? Tricky.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by Stavia »

This brings me to a theme I like to empathize.
Balancing all factors and not focusing on one small detail the the exclusion of larger factors. This example: possible cardiovascular issues with higher dietary phytosterols versus the likely benefits of a plant based diet for all chronic diseases.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by GenePoole0304 »

Juliegee wrote:Provacative discussion! Thanks, all, for weighing in. Gene, Stavia recalled correctly. This is from Dr. Dayspring from page 4 of this thread:
To Julie - It is impossible for a vegan not to eat phytosterols. My point is that high phytosterol concentrations can be potentially atherogenic. The real concern is that hyperabsorbers of cholesterol (who will also hyperabsorb phytosterols) should never use phytosterol supplements as a functional food to reduce apoB or LDL-C or LDL-P. For thorough tutorials on the complex nuances of sterols and stanols go to our teaching web site w http://www.lecturepad.org w and search for sterols. Rather complex topic - understood by few.

Eat all the veggies you want - but all with E4 alleles have the potential to be hyperabsorbers of sterols and thus need to check absorption/synthesis status at baseline and after therapeutic endeavors.
I found this link to be among the more instructive in helping me to determine which primarily whole foods contain sitosterol. EVOO is one, as well as avocado, nuts, even dark chocolate. ALL of the foods we tend to eat to avoid SFA. Hmmm. For folks eating a more balanced diet, I think Dr. Dayspring is correct, but for those of us who hyperabsorb sitosterol to be using plant sterols to achieve ketosis, I can see how we could get into trouble.

Stavia, great question: does it matter? Maybe, if it drives up LDL-P and ApoB and one has evidence of CAD. In the case of the former without the latter, who knows? Nancy, another great comment. If sitosterols (plants & plant fats) raise lipids, then what do we eat? Tricky.

Not at all provocative and DrD answer makes the point and it is counter to what Stavia said. Nothing wrong to be corrected and better for every ones understanding trying to learn. Also what you addressed to Stavia I would not agree with as it is clear to me what DrD said but it is up to you to decide for yourself and ask the right questions. If we can't be called out and corrected then you will be getting an all agreement yes group think forum and not understanding the issues. If I was called out and corrected I would thank the person as I would have learned something and would be grateful for it.

I is clear to me what he is saying as I implied in my rely to you that we should be careful not to over consume those foods with high plant sterol content. It does not mean avoid and ignore what DrD said and use the food for ketosis or whatever ones reasons. To advise otherwise does not seem prudent. There is nothing provocative in knowing the facts rather than poo pooing the importance of the statements but do as you wish it is ones life to live as you see fit, but advising others is your moral burden. Yes I just take the warning seriously it is not meant for medical advice here as clearly I am not a doctor and the site warns not to take these things as fact and what I decide is my choice just as it is yours.

Dr W Davis viewpoint is similar to DrD.

??what is the great part of Nancy's response?? I missed the point?

Maybe it is better to ask what are safe levels for plant sterols?
DrG is advising advocado's so what does he say? Those are great questions imho!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12771969

I will sit back and wait and retreat to other threads when time permits.
Last edited by GenePoole0304 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Our first guest: Dr. Thomas Dayspring...

Post by Stavia »

Gene
Dr Dayspring said that the phytosterols in plants in his opinion were not large enough in quantity to be a factor in heart disease.
Dr Dayspring was warning us about plant stanol spreads as the amount in them was many times larger than a plant based diet. And as hyperabsorbers apoe4s preferentially hyperabsorb stanols.
I have watched several hours of his lectures on his website, and read through many case studies, both aimed at educating doctors, which you are welcome to watch and read as well, and he states this several times.

I have no issue with saying I am mistaken if I have made a mistake. My posts stand as evidence.
I am free to state my opinion as you are. However I am very careful to say that it is my opinion when I believe there is insufficient evidence to support the view as "proven" beyond doubt. My posts stand as evidence as well.
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