Alcohol use for APOE3/4?

[Russ]

Nords, Just want to thank you for sharing this deeply personal and relevant story. Great food for thought...

[Stavia]

Nords, you are the voice of reason for me, now for the second time. I deeply appreciate your viewpoint. It sounds trite, but I really mean it.

[Nords]

Nords, Just want to thank you for sharing this deeply personal and relevant story. Great food for thought...

Nords, you are the voice of reason for me, now for the second time. I deeply appreciate your viewpoint. It sounds trite, but I really mean it.

Thanks, I hear you and I appreciate it right back. That never gets trite!

Call it occupational group therapy. And maybe a draft blog post.

[Gilgamesh]

Nords,

Sorry to hear about your Dad.

I sneaked my first beer at age 13 and I was an enthusiastic supporter of 1970s-80s Navy culture. But today when I laugh and shake my head and say "Thanks, my drinking days are behind me", my drinking friends laugh too and offer me something without alcohol. I haven't told them my father's story, but every friend can understand why their friend has stopped drinking. If they don't understand then they're not your friend.

No, not necessarily. It can be more complicated than that, esp. in some cultures, or subcultures, where drinking as a ritual is extremely important. And even if they understand, it wouldn't necessarily mean there'd be a smooth transition to a new sort of relationship.

But all I'm saying is "I find that feeling like I can't drink makes me not want to go out as much." Not blaming my friends. It's a bit of a mystery to me. That's how the researchers in the UK described it, when they did their teetotalism experiment: "for some reason we just didn't feel like going out at night" (knowing that it's perfectly possible to go out and not drink).

Susan, yes, this has been my approach: trying to meet for coffee or lunch or go hiking. I'm getting there. But I'm more inclined to skip the teetotalism and find a low-alcohol drink (without a lot sugar, or gluten...) I can order and nurse for the evening (well, and also continue transitioning towards daytime social activities).

GB

[circular]

Gilgamesh, not saying you shouldn't continue to find ways to enjoy your familiar friends and rituals, but also consider all the new neurons to be grown by going forth in new directions. Here's some stream of consciousness just to explore some ideas ...

I don't drink, so my issue along these lines is this: I've normally had lunch out with friends. It's cheaper than dinner at the same spots, but it costs quite a bit because eating out gluten and dairy and junk free usually means way overpriced salads with protein. I finally realized I had to go almost cold turkey on restaurants to stop spending so much money on overpriced meals that I usually had to remove all the tasty ingredients from. Just the economics of it was making me "sick to my stomach". So I'm now eating at home and meeting friends at coffee shops. (I also plan to have more friends over instead of meeting out.) Now I actually find it much more satisfying not having whole plates of food between us. We have fewer distractions, and more importantly, more unbroken eye contact providing more sustained true connectedness. I think that's probably very very good.

So not to digress too much, but consider that drinking with friends may not be as protective for other reasons as well - such as reduced intimate connection with them. My guess is that quality and depth of connection are very important to our brain health. Since I never go out with friends drinking, I may not know what I'm talking about. Maybe there's more intimate connection than I realize. Maybe the reduction of inhibition fosters it. It's just hard for me to picture knowing it does alter one's mental state. Apart from its physiological disadvantages, alcohol seems a better tool to avoid rather than nurture the intimate levels of support that I'm hypothesizing would be really good for prevention. I'm not sure if the studies have ever looked at these nuances or have just looked at number of people in one's network and frequency of interaction of any type.

Forgive me if I am totally clueless. I don't mean to inappropriately characterize others' experience of socializing with friends while enjoying alcohol, because I'm truly ignorant about it. I guess I'm just posing the question whether it's the type of social support that benefits us, and might some situations provide a false sense of social support by reducing the level of intimacy, which (hypothesizing) may be a needed component for prevention. Put another way, does socializing without alcohol provide enhanced prevention if it allows for a more direction connection with ones' friends? The answer may be it depends. There's also a lot to be said for having FUN and letting go of hyperfocus with others, which alcohol can facilitate. The avenue I'm drawn to these days for expansive states of mind in a group setting is group work with tai chi, chi gong and other moving and still meditation modalities. One thing I like about a local teacher is she calls it "playing tai chi", embracing and encouraging the levity of it.

[Julie G]

Nords, I just wanted to chime in to let you know how much I appreciate your raw honesty. I needed to hear that story- thank you

[Gilgamesh]

Circular- thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. I also appreciate your acknowledgement that you're dealing with an unfamiliar realm. I live in northern Europe most of the year, so it's even more unfamiliar to many in this forum than they might think.

In any event, I basically already am beginning to do precisely what you (and Susan) describe, but it's a big change in my subculture, or even, I should say, "microculture". It would be easier for me if I could demonize some of these people as "not really my friends" if they balk at my not drinking, but I don't see it that way. They miss me, a certain me that no longer exists. I have sympathy for them.

But I have "transitioned" a few friendships to daytime, sober encounters, and it's been fascinating! We're learning new sides of one another, deepening the friendships in unexpected ways. Of course, this is another reason to live in the U.S.: there really is more flexibility when it comes to social norms in general, and, in particular, when it comes to openness to "strange" behavior based on health concerns.

To be honest, though, when small molecule correctors are available, I'll go back to my old ways: not getting drunk, but happily drinking a few glasses over the course of a long evening.

Till then, I'm enjoying nature a lot more, and have discovered the joys of afternoon coffee breaks with friends. (By the way, I know what you mean about the impossibility of restaurant eating!!) But I'm still too socially isolated. (I wish I could score some oxytocin spray!)

Un abrazo
GB

[circular]

Beautiful GB, not always easy, but beautiful to see you adventuring into new spaces like that! There is so much to life, and often our habits - in addition to the many good things they offer - hold us back. Oh my gosh, just thinking of living in the cold again makes me understand even more. I used to love a good shot of whiskey in the bone-chilling cold Sometimes alcohol seems downright medicinal.

[GenePoole0304]

"you mean sulphites/sulphites right?"

yes I wish they would declare contents on the bottle.

sometimes it is good to have a small drink say a half glass of wine to improve the appetite when I'm out for a good big full course meal at say a Michelin star quality resto.

losing social inhibitions just requires practice not libations!

[Julie G]

Losing social inhibitions just requires practice not libations!

LOVE!