Hi, I'm 51 and 3/4 with no symptoms yet. My 3/4 father is 73 and after a number of years with "mild cognitive impairment" has been reevaluated recently to "moderate" status. One of my four biological children, age 21, is 3/4 also. (I have one adopted child who, thankfully, is 3/3.) I received my 23andMe results last summer and find my ApoE4 status to be a great motivator.
Fortunately, I already had some forward momentum. After pretending invincibility for 46 years, in 2009 I began taking steps to improve my health. I went through a number of phases - no sugar, Zone Diet, Alternate Day Diet, etc., and I lost a lot of weight. I also resumed vigorous exercise (ice hockey). For the past 15 months I have been more focused and have reached a satisfactory weight for the first time since my mid 20's:
- 16/8 intermittent fasting.
- Avoid industrial seed oils (e.g. corn, soybean, cottonseed, canola, peanut).
- Increase monounsaturated and saturated fats - olive oil, coconut oil, eggs, butter, cheese, cream.
- Eat fatty fish (brisling sardines) every other day.
- Increase average sleep duration from six hours to more than seven.
- Increase strenuous exercise to four hours weekly.
While researching ketogenic dieting as a treatment option for my wife's chronic migraines, I became interested in it as a possible AD prevention protocol. A number of the PubMed articles that show up for a "migraine ketogenic" search discuss neuroprotective benefits generally and include entire sections on Alzheimer's. Out of personal curiosity, a desire to blaze the trail for my reluctant wife, and some hope for my own long-term brain health, I started the diet four months ago. I target 30 grams of carbohydrates and 140 grams of protein while eating monounsaturated, saturated, and omega-3 polyunsaturated fats to satiety. I enjoy the diet and have had no difficulty following it.
Six months ago I took my first NMR test - LDL-P 721, small LDL-P <90, HDL 79, trig 26 - yay! (In 2003 my worst-ever lipid test showed HDL 36 and trig 373!) After four months of increased saturated fat consumption on the ketogenic diet, I need to retest. I read recently that ApoE4's may not tolerate saturated fat well - oops!
Anyway, that's enough about me for an introduction. I'm really glad to see this site here and am looking forward to staying abreast of ApoE4 developments while getting to know you all.
merouleau intro
Re: merouleau intro
Welcome merouleau! Glad to have you here. It's a journey none of us expected to take, but we're glad we found fellow travelers like yourself.
Looks like you're doing a lot of the things we talk about here. You'll find a lot of variation of opinions on the fat question, especially saturated fats. Using your test results is the best way to see what is happening for you. There are also unknowns about exercise, and whether strenuous is good or not. Definitely an area of research to watch.
We sound like we could be siblings! My dad was diagnosed at age 80 after a couple of years of MCI. I'm also 3/4 and also saw my trigs improve with a lower carb diet. I did see my LDL-P and ApoB rise with more saturated fats and coconut oil, although my other markers, including inflammation, were good. I was close to vegan in 2009 when I switched my diet for gut health reasons before I knew of my APOE status. I still don't eat dairy (tests show an IgG allergy to casein), but it remains to be seen if those levels are okay or not, so I've cut back a bit in those fat areas and will recheck this spring. Will be interested in seeing your retest.
Poke around the site and hope you jump into the discussions!
Looks like you're doing a lot of the things we talk about here. You'll find a lot of variation of opinions on the fat question, especially saturated fats. Using your test results is the best way to see what is happening for you. There are also unknowns about exercise, and whether strenuous is good or not. Definitely an area of research to watch.
We sound like we could be siblings! My dad was diagnosed at age 80 after a couple of years of MCI. I'm also 3/4 and also saw my trigs improve with a lower carb diet. I did see my LDL-P and ApoB rise with more saturated fats and coconut oil, although my other markers, including inflammation, were good. I was close to vegan in 2009 when I switched my diet for gut health reasons before I knew of my APOE status. I still don't eat dairy (tests show an IgG allergy to casein), but it remains to be seen if those levels are okay or not, so I've cut back a bit in those fat areas and will recheck this spring. Will be interested in seeing your retest.
Poke around the site and hope you jump into the discussions!
Re: merouleau intro
Welcome Merouleau! I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad; YES- very motivating. Congrats on all of the positive health changes you've made so far.
I'm a fellow low-carber, also studying the ketogenic diet as an AD prevention tool. Like you, I'm working on figuring out a way to make it healthy for us E4s. We need to start a separate thread outlining our various attempts. I love that you have an excellent baseline NMR. I'll be anxious to see things pan out for you.
Re. SFAs, the jury is still out for me. I've read all of the Berkley reference materials and the case against them for E4s is weak. None were conducted in the context of a low carb diet. Additionally, there MAY be a difference in plant vs. animal based SFAs...still experimenting with that. AND, undoubtably quality of the fat is really important. You're asking the same questions that many of us are struggling with.
I look forward to learning with you
I'm a fellow low-carber, also studying the ketogenic diet as an AD prevention tool. Like you, I'm working on figuring out a way to make it healthy for us E4s. We need to start a separate thread outlining our various attempts. I love that you have an excellent baseline NMR. I'll be anxious to see things pan out for you.
Re. SFAs, the jury is still out for me. I've read all of the Berkley reference materials and the case against them for E4s is weak. None were conducted in the context of a low carb diet. Additionally, there MAY be a difference in plant vs. animal based SFAs...still experimenting with that. AND, undoubtably quality of the fat is really important. You're asking the same questions that many of us are struggling with.
I look forward to learning with you
Re: merouleau intro
Thanks for the kind welcomes!
SusanJ, thanks for the heads up regarding potential interactions of exercise with ApoE4 status. I see a discussion on that topic in the Nutrition/Exercise area.
Juliegee, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only ApoE4 who is interested in the ketogenic diet. And as a fan of Bill Lands' work on essential fatty acids, I agree with you regarding fat quality.
SusanJ, thanks for the heads up regarding potential interactions of exercise with ApoE4 status. I see a discussion on that topic in the Nutrition/Exercise area.
Juliegee, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only ApoE4 who is interested in the ketogenic diet. And as a fan of Bill Lands' work on essential fatty acids, I agree with you regarding fat quality.
Re: merouleau intro
welcome...
I'm no believer in the keto diet it ruins your gut and health the others here have not proved anything
but what were you doing before your good nmr test? not high fat I bet?
http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrup ... etheanimal
I'm no believer in the keto diet it ruins your gut and health the others here have not proved anything
but what were you doing before your good nmr test? not high fat I bet?
http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrup ... etheanimal
Re: merouleau intro
I wasn't tracking what I ate at that time, so this is a guess based on what I learned later by tracking everything on MyFitnessPal: 25% carbohydrates, 25% protein, 50% fat. By the time of the test, I had already cleared the industrial seed oils and processed foods from my diet. I also had lost my reluctance to consume lots of fat as a result of reading Gary Taubes and Peter Attia.
While moving to ketosis drove significant metabolic changes in my body, the changes required in my diet were incremental rather than radical. For the past four months I have been at 5% carbohydrates, 20% protein, and 75% fat.
Regarding digestion and overall health, I feel good and enjoy especially the steady energy and absence of food cravings. That said, if a new test shows any metabolic health problems, I will adjust.
While moving to ketosis drove significant metabolic changes in my body, the changes required in my diet were incremental rather than radical. For the past four months I have been at 5% carbohydrates, 20% protein, and 75% fat.
Regarding digestion and overall health, I feel good and enjoy especially the steady energy and absence of food cravings. That said, if a new test shows any metabolic health problems, I will adjust.
Re: merouleau intro
Welcome! I'm new here as well in the last few weeks. I'm encouraged to see your diet from before your last labs, as that's about what I've just moved to. I had good labs with a higher carb diet, but I'm not convinced that's best for me. Really looking forward to seeing your new labs. Thanks for joining, and I look forward to learning with you!
Re: merouleau intro
Welcome merouleau and congrats on being the first E4 on this forum to achieve LDL-P<1000 without eating vegan. Thanks for updating the Biomarkers wiki web page.
What a drastic improvement in your trigs - the lowest I've seen on this forum.
Some questions at the time of your NMR:
Are you taking any hormones, supplements, drugs that would improve your lipid metabolism?
How calorie restricted were you? Or maybe an estimate of calorie intake?
Were you eating more olive oil than the higher saturated fat sources?
I suspect your LDL-P will increase with increasing saturated fats. Usually LDL-C will increase and it wouldn't seem likely that your trigs would decrease much further to compensate.
What a drastic improvement in your trigs - the lowest I've seen on this forum.
Some questions at the time of your NMR:
Are you taking any hormones, supplements, drugs that would improve your lipid metabolism?
How calorie restricted were you? Or maybe an estimate of calorie intake?
Were you eating more olive oil than the higher saturated fat sources?
I suspect your LDL-P will increase with increasing saturated fats. Usually LDL-C will increase and it wouldn't seem likely that your trigs would decrease much further to compensate.
ε3/ε4
Re: merouleau intro
MarkES, at the time of my August NMR I had been taking 50 mg of DHEA each morning for several years, but I had never tested my levels. (I know, really smart.) The measured DHEA-S level in that sample, which was taken at 2pm, six hours after that day's dose, was 903 for a substance with a reference range of 70-310. Oops. (I have since reduced the daily dose to 10 mg.) Until today, I was unaware of any relationship between DHEA levels and one's lipid profile, but a quick search has turned up studies that make me wonder if the DHEA had an impact. Here's a sampling:
Serum lipids and dehydroepiandrosterone excretion in normal subjects
http://www.jlr.org/content/9/6/769.full.pdf
Effect of dehydroepiandrosterone replacement on insulin sensitivity and lipids in hypoadrenal women
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734854
Protective effect of dehydroepiandrosterone against lipid peroxidation in a human liver cell line
http://www.eje-online.org/content/141/1/35.full.pdf
Lipodystrophy May Be Related to Cortisol: DHEA Ratio and Serum Alpha-Interferon
http://www.natap.org/2001/8thcroi/lipom ... 031401.htm
Effect of Dehydroepiandrosterone on Bone Mass, Serum Lipids, and Dimethylbenz(a)anthracene-Induced Mammary Carcinoma in the Rat
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1 ... 138.8.5345
Dehydroepiandrosterone in Relation to Adiposity, Glucose Tolerance and Lipid Spectra in Czech Non-Diabetic Population
http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf ... 57_S67.pdf
Thankfully, my other sex hormones and my thyroid hormones were in good shape. At the time, I was also taking 1 mg of melatonin most nights before bed. DHEA and melatonin are the only hormones I have taken.
Regarding other supplements, I was taking turmeric (not curcumin) 1.5 g, fish oil 1 g, magnesium, vitamin K2. I was not taking vitamin D at the time as I supplement from Labor Day to Memorial Day only - I presume but do not know that my vitamin D status was good because of sun exposure.
I have not ever taken prescription drugs chronically.
I ate freely within my 16/8 IF regimen. That's why I like IF - it helps me keep my weight in check without counting calories. There's only so much damage I can do in eight hours! I would guess that I was averaging about 3,000 calories.
I would guess I was eating monounsaturated and saturated fats in similar proportions. Staple monounsaturates were macadamia nuts, olive oil, and avocados. Staple saturates were coconut oil, eggs, beef, butter, cheese, and high-fat (10%) yogurt.
Serum lipids and dehydroepiandrosterone excretion in normal subjects
http://www.jlr.org/content/9/6/769.full.pdf
Effect of dehydroepiandrosterone replacement on insulin sensitivity and lipids in hypoadrenal women
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734854
Protective effect of dehydroepiandrosterone against lipid peroxidation in a human liver cell line
http://www.eje-online.org/content/141/1/35.full.pdf
Lipodystrophy May Be Related to Cortisol: DHEA Ratio and Serum Alpha-Interferon
http://www.natap.org/2001/8thcroi/lipom ... 031401.htm
Effect of Dehydroepiandrosterone on Bone Mass, Serum Lipids, and Dimethylbenz(a)anthracene-Induced Mammary Carcinoma in the Rat
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1 ... 138.8.5345
Dehydroepiandrosterone in Relation to Adiposity, Glucose Tolerance and Lipid Spectra in Czech Non-Diabetic Population
http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf ... 57_S67.pdf
Thankfully, my other sex hormones and my thyroid hormones were in good shape. At the time, I was also taking 1 mg of melatonin most nights before bed. DHEA and melatonin are the only hormones I have taken.
Regarding other supplements, I was taking turmeric (not curcumin) 1.5 g, fish oil 1 g, magnesium, vitamin K2. I was not taking vitamin D at the time as I supplement from Labor Day to Memorial Day only - I presume but do not know that my vitamin D status was good because of sun exposure.
I have not ever taken prescription drugs chronically.
I ate freely within my 16/8 IF regimen. That's why I like IF - it helps me keep my weight in check without counting calories. There's only so much damage I can do in eight hours! I would guess that I was averaging about 3,000 calories.
I would guess I was eating monounsaturated and saturated fats in similar proportions. Staple monounsaturates were macadamia nuts, olive oil, and avocados. Staple saturates were coconut oil, eggs, beef, butter, cheese, and high-fat (10%) yogurt.
Re: merouleau intro
Really interesting to hear about your 16/8 regimen, Merouleau. Any guess on your macronutrient ratios prior to your last NMR?