Susan, thanks for sharing your experience and for noting the radiation load of CT scans - I certainly wouldn't want that amount of exposure annually!
Julie, both articles were great - many thanks! It sounds like I should ask for a CIMT instead of a CT heart scan and that lowering homocysteine should be my top health priority.
merouleau intro
Re: merouleau intro
Jimmy Moore is ApoE3/3.
Chris Kresser recommends CRP, Lp(a), iron panel w/ ferritin, hemoglobin A1c, post-meal blood sugar, Simon Broome Criteria and Reynold's Score for those with LDL-P>1000. Even if those are good, Kresser treats LDL-P>1000 as higher risk.
Are you comfortable following Jimmy's path? I'm not aware of others who endorse the same. My impression has been that he is attempting to follow what he feels is the lesser of evils.
Chris Kresser recommends CRP, Lp(a), iron panel w/ ferritin, hemoglobin A1c, post-meal blood sugar, Simon Broome Criteria and Reynold's Score for those with LDL-P>1000. Even if those are good, Kresser treats LDL-P>1000 as higher risk.
Are you comfortable following Jimmy's path? I'm not aware of others who endorse the same. My impression has been that he is attempting to follow what he feels is the lesser of evils.
ε3/ε4
- Gilgamesh
- Contributor
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Re: merouleau intro
About CRP: ε4's tend to have significantly lower CRP, but, in our case, it can't necessarily be read as something good. (Drats! Mine is off the charts low.)
See, for ex.
http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/con ... /2109.full
and, esp.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3389284/
GB
See, for ex.
http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/con ... /2109.full
and, esp.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3389284/
GB
Re: merouleau intro
Based on the article Julie linked above, I would count Rakesh C. Patel, M.D. as another adherent to the point of view that LDL-P/C don't matter when small LDL-P and triglycerides are low, HDL-P/C are high, and LDL are Pattern A. Stellar CT heart scan results anchor both men's accounts, and Patel also describes three CIMT results that document a significant reversal of atherosclerosis with LDL-P=3000.MarkES wrote:Are you comfortable following Jimmy's path? I'm not aware of others who endorse the same.
My current state is short of "comfortable", but nutritional ketosis still seems to me to be my best bet.
Re: merouleau intro
Thanks for highlighting Patel's blog post. An interesting theory from a physician who focuses on heart attack prevention. Sounds like a WIP, though. He hasn't written since November 2012, I wonder what he's up to lately.
Note that Patel also recommends Caldwell Esselstyn's vegan diet in that same blog post, which is high carb, very low fat (no oil, nuts, or avocados):
It isn't clear to me how to reconcile the "minimize carbohydrate exposure, insulin causes atherosclerosis" theory with recommending a high carb vegan diet.
These high levels of serum cholesterol haven't been observed in traditional societies and so it seems like a sign of an unnatural state.
I don't mean to give you hard time, merouleau, just trying to present various perspectives. We all have our unique journey with varying circumstances and I hope everyone finds what works for them.
Note that Patel also recommends Caldwell Esselstyn's vegan diet in that same blog post, which is high carb, very low fat (no oil, nuts, or avocados):
[Rakesh C. Patel, M.D. wrote:I propose diet DOES matter (shocking, I know). In particular, those that minimize carbohydrate exposure and thus insulin signaling; will have difficulty developing atherosclerosis, inflammation and thus events and potentially reverse it. What are the diets that do this? A ketogenic diet, low carb/LC Paleo diet AND as much as it pains me to say, the plant based diet.
It isn't anecdotal, Caldwell Esselstyn conducted a study demonstrating heart disease reversal on a very low fat vegan diet.Steve Lansdowne wrote:Can you please comment on which plant-based diet you are talking about and what evidence you have that supports your conclusion that it works?Rakesh C. Patel, M.D. wrote:This comes from anecdotal evidence from Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlIBGG8V8P4
It isn't clear to me how to reconcile the "minimize carbohydrate exposure, insulin causes atherosclerosis" theory with recommending a high carb vegan diet.
These high levels of serum cholesterol haven't been observed in traditional societies and so it seems like a sign of an unnatural state.
I don't mean to give you hard time, merouleau, just trying to present various perspectives. We all have our unique journey with varying circumstances and I hope everyone finds what works for them.
ε3/ε4
Re: merouleau intro
Hey Mark, aren't we all WIP? Anyone who isn't; frankly scares me a bit. There is much uncertainty here.
I'm not really hooked-up to the low-carb world, but I think that Dr. Rocky Patel is quite active in that community. He often works with John Keiffer. You recently listened to both of them interview Robb Wolfe on resistant starch.
I think it's fascinating and puzzling that a low-fat plant-based diet, a Paleo diet and a ketogenic diet all prevent heart disease. And, yep, an entirely plant-based diet isn't low carb, but provides the same benefits. Like all of us, I'm struggling to understand WHY and discern which will best help me avoid Alzheimer's.
My guess is that we each need to find out what diet makes us feel our healthiest/strongest while taking into consideration our biggest genetic hurdles (based on SNPs and family history.) At the same time, we need to minimize our risks with whatever path we've chosen. No easy answers here. I'm glad to be learning with and from all.
I'm not really hooked-up to the low-carb world, but I think that Dr. Rocky Patel is quite active in that community. He often works with John Keiffer. You recently listened to both of them interview Robb Wolfe on resistant starch.
I think it's fascinating and puzzling that a low-fat plant-based diet, a Paleo diet and a ketogenic diet all prevent heart disease. And, yep, an entirely plant-based diet isn't low carb, but provides the same benefits. Like all of us, I'm struggling to understand WHY and discern which will best help me avoid Alzheimer's.
My guess is that we each need to find out what diet makes us feel our healthiest/strongest while taking into consideration our biggest genetic hurdles (based on SNPs and family history.) At the same time, we need to minimize our risks with whatever path we've chosen. No easy answers here. I'm glad to be learning with and from all.
Re: merouleau intro
Gilgamesh, then there are people like me (3/4), with decent overall lipids (much room for improvement though), a HIGH CRP but normal homocysteine level. And I feel like that CRP needs to come down, down, down. Very interesting studies for me, thank you.
Re: merouleau intro
I appreciate your comments and suggestions, and I don't take offense. I think we are operating in an area of uncertainty, and ongoing respectful debates encourage us to keep our minds open to a variety of strategies.MarkES wrote:I don't mean to give you hard time, merouleau, just trying to present various perspectives. We all have our unique journey with varying circumstances and I hope everyone finds what works for them.
Re: merouleau intro
I've been reading this forum for a while now and I think that one fundamental concept is lost on most contributors: the majority of APOE-4 carriers (both heterozygous and homozygous) will never develop Alzheimers or any APOE-4 related diseases in their lifetimes. This is something that really needs to be remembered. The risk is increased on a population scale, but estimating risk on an individual scale based on one variably penetrant gene is impossible given the innumerable epigenetic and environmental influences that have yet to be discovered. Not too long ago, APOE-4 was not able to be tested for in the absence of clinically documented suspicion for dementia, and honestly, I think the ethics of testing in asymptomatic individuals remains murky at best.
Re: merouleau intro
Perhaps murky without a protocol of well-researched prevention steps. We've talked before about the "would you do it over", "did you really want to know" and everyone has a different view.
But, I do think it provides a kick in the butt to tighten up our lifestyles where we can and give us the best shot to be one of those people who don't get it.
I, for one, was ignoring signs of impending bad health (weight gain, stress, gut issues), even though most people thought I looked healthy. We might disagree on the best diet here, but I had a serious sugar addiction - which is not good for anyone - that I have wrestled to the ground after staring my genes in the face. Looking at my dad (died of AD, but also had diabetes) and my great-aunt (in nursing home for 10 years with AD), their diet was high in sugar and carbs. So, I'm extra motivated to not be sugar addicted, overweight or become diabetic (if possible, I have other genetic influences there) because I saw that it certainly didn't work for them. I also learned to supplement to overcome things like MTHFR (homozygous 677 variant), which certainly affected both my parents health as I look back at their history, and also might influence my overall risks of many diseases, not just AD.
So, yes maybe murky for many people, but for me it's been much better than being totally in the dark, and my overall health has improved because of it.
But, I do think it provides a kick in the butt to tighten up our lifestyles where we can and give us the best shot to be one of those people who don't get it.
I, for one, was ignoring signs of impending bad health (weight gain, stress, gut issues), even though most people thought I looked healthy. We might disagree on the best diet here, but I had a serious sugar addiction - which is not good for anyone - that I have wrestled to the ground after staring my genes in the face. Looking at my dad (died of AD, but also had diabetes) and my great-aunt (in nursing home for 10 years with AD), their diet was high in sugar and carbs. So, I'm extra motivated to not be sugar addicted, overweight or become diabetic (if possible, I have other genetic influences there) because I saw that it certainly didn't work for them. I also learned to supplement to overcome things like MTHFR (homozygous 677 variant), which certainly affected both my parents health as I look back at their history, and also might influence my overall risks of many diseases, not just AD.
So, yes maybe murky for many people, but for me it's been much better than being totally in the dark, and my overall health has improved because of it.