Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by NF52 »

MyDestinyisfromGod wrote:Hi my name is Lynn. I am 53...I have an AZ50 of 86. The risk goes up almost 10 percent each year until by the age of 90, it just says <95. The one thing that was a bit confusing to me was the instantaneous risk. If you look at age 95 it shows 26%. That seems a bit irrelevant if it is next to certain that I’ll have it by age 90 anyway. So I thought I might be missing something important with that.

Secondly, I wondered if the results would be different if my Dad who had Alz (died 3 years ago) had early onset. If I inherited something from him, and he did have early onset, would that mean my AZ50 would be younger (and the rest correspondingly so)? The best recollection my brother and sister have, I think he showed really clear symptoms at age 63. He looked at a frisbee at a birthday party at 62 and didn’t know what it was....
A warm welcome Lynn, from an ApoE 4/4 woman who is a healthy 66, and wants to reassure you that the Moderators here don't delete a post for being in the wrong spot!! Sometimes folks just get busy with jobs, family, etc. and a new user slips by for a day or so.

We're happy you found us and, as you can see from MarcR's reply, we're very interested in brave souls like you who have used the new DASH service. I haven't, but I think I can answer what seems like a contradiction between your risk of Alzheimer's disease (AD) at age 86 or 90, and your "instantaneous risk" at age 95.
I think it helps to start with a different example from a happier topic. If you look at when babies start to walk, some start as early as 9 months, most are taking at least a few steps by 12 months, a few outliers (like me) don't walk until their 15 months old (I blame the playpen) and a very few don't walk until after age 18 months, or even age 2 or 3. So if you told parents that their child has a 50% chance of walking by their first birthday, that would make sense. If you said they have a 90% chance of walking by age 18 months that would also make sense. And if you said that if they're not walking by age 18 months, they still have a 30 % chance of walking between 18 months and 24 months, that would also make sense. But that group of babies not walking until 18-24 months would be the outliers, getting smaller and smaller each month (happily).
Alzheimer's is the same: the incidence is highest in most studies in the 70's and 80's, then decreases but each group that gets older without AD is going to have some portion that gets diagnosed eventually. So you have supposedly a 50% chance of having a diagnosis of AD by age 86, and a 90% chance of a diagnosis by age 90. But if you survive to age 95 without dementia (and the average lifespan for women our age is now 86), you will be part of a very small group, that still has a small (25%) chance of getting AD that year.
If you want to look at the bright side (and I am an optimist), you have a 50% chance of NOT getting Alzheimer's during what is projected to be your lifespan from an actuarial table. Since DASH does not take into account lifestyle factors that may move the needle to a later age, your risk could be lower.

As for your Dad, I doubt he had early onset Alzheimer's, since when they say "onset before age 65", they mean a diagnosis of Alzheimer's before age 65. And that's a rough cut-off; as the nurse told you, most people with early onset have a strong family history of dementia starting in the early to mid-50's. What you dad had with not being able to recall the name "frisbee", which he might not have seen since 1960, was a "tip of the tongue" moment when a word in his memory didn't come back. Not being able to throw it well could have been that he never threw it in the 1960's either, or that his coordination was going. But those things probably didn't represent a significant enough decrease in his skills to be considered dementia; more likely he was moving into Mild Cognitive Impairment (MCI). Even a diagnosis at age 63 would likely have been affected by having something in addition to ApoE 4--high blood pressure, diabetes, coronary artery disease, the medication your mother referred to, or even an early brain injury (if he was in WWII or the Korean War) or sports-related concussions. My dad died of cardiac arrest at 67, after having diabetes for 20 years and severe coronary artery disease that went undetected. He would have been at least ApoE 3/4. Yet my 65 year old brother has no sign of heart disease, and my "cardiac age" on a coronary calcium scan is 39.
So, my friend, we are more than the 50% of our genes that each parent gave us. Your environment, your education, your occupation, your social and spiritual beliefs, your diet, exercise, sleep habits, your ability to view getting older with positive emotions--all those are protective factors that your dad and his siblings may not have had.
It can feel like a rollercoaster at high speed to get all this info in a report. Give yourself permission to step away from it for a while, if needed, and to look around at all the good things in life. Then, when you're ready, take baby steps to do what makes sense for you.
4/4 and still an optimist!
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by circular »

If I’m not mistaken the amyloid precursor protein (APP) is also deterministic for early onset AD?

I think there’s some variance among researchers as to what age is used to indicate early onset.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by NF52 »

circular wrote:If I’m not mistaken the amyloid precursor protein (APP) is also deterministic for early onset AD?

I think there’s some variance among researchers as to what age is used to indicate early onset.
I think you might be thinking of Presenilin, which is a gene linked to risk of early AD. APP is something everyone has; it’s only when it “cleaves” incorrectly that amyloid beta is formed. The Generations 1 & 2 trials include use of a beta-amyloid precursor protein cleaving enzyme inhibitor (BACE-1) to prevent incorrect cutting of the APP, and therefore prevent about 80% of amyloid being formed. But that APP is seen in late-onset. I think early AD is a different process. (But I confess to knowing way too little!)
4/4 and still an optimist!
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MyDestinyisfromGod »

Hi Marc,

I was trying to figure out how to upload my raw data from 23 and Me when I realized you were just asking about how many of the Apoe4 genes I have. :D I have one Apoe4. (I had put those bits of information into the post that took me so long to write that it timed out and was lost :D ). They wouldn’t tell me what the other one was. I sent an email to ask and they said it doesn’t matter because it isn’t something that causes Alzheimer’s. I wanted to know though because I had read that either the 2 or the 3 helps lessen the risk and I thought it might help offset the 4.

My Polygenic Hazard Score is 93. Thank you for the information from the other site. I will definitely check that out
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MyDestinyisfromGod »

Thank you NF52 for your response and kind words!! I am pretty optimistic for a couple of reasons. One is just that I don’t pass the 50 percentile until age 86, and if that means it is for the onset of Alz, I probably won’t go the 12+ years my Dad did. Secondly, is what I learned through the huge ordeal of figuring out how to care for my Dad when often it seemed impossible. The resources needed seemed impossible to attain, and the viability of continuing with just my Mom caring for him seemed impossible time after time. Yet she refused to do anything else. But God always worked things out for us. The impossible became possible. So I know that God will give us the grace to be alright no matter what happens to me or my family. He didn’t tell us we wouldn’t face common human conditions, but to take heart, He will never leave us.

I’ll still check up some on the early AD thing if it is knowable in some way. I do want to be prepared if I have a greater risk than what I am currently thinking. I didn’t give a lot of details, but I remember the party with Dad and the frisbee. He was well known to me to be exhibiting symptoms at that point and that’s when it really struck my brother. My Dad just stood there staring at the frisbee, and when he tried to throw it, it came off like a two year old throwing a ball. He threw it overhand. But at that point Dad had told me he was having trouble with his memory. A while before then, he had been at my home and had no idea how to start a charcoal grill. That was my first realization. I couldn’t figure out how he could say he had never done that before. We had camp fires and cooked out all the time I was growing up. I started questioning myself - was it just always a wood fire and never charcoal? But when I told my husband later he told about Dad being amazed at how he was fixing something on a window. I don’t remember the details but when I put that together with what had happened with me, I started realizing. And I know my Mom and Dad had argued about how to go places. We had a big row where I jumped in to stand up for Dad, not knowing that Dad’s ability to know how to get places had gone bad. At one point, Mom had told me that he had depression for a few years prior to noticing things. It took awhile to realize he wasn’t just being uncooperative on purpose, to try and be argumentative, but really didn’t remember conversations they would have the day before once the symptoms were more recognizable.

I guess really it’s hard to say at what point a person “has Alz” since it is such a gradual thing. And I really imagine he probably doesn’t have early onset, if the only kind of early onset is like the special on TV I saw a couple years ago about the people in South America that seemed like whole family’s were having it at a much earlier age. I just want to be sure I don’t misunderstand something, or fail to look at something. Mom and Dad went through a pretty rough time when no one realized what was happening to him.

I do plan to look at lifestyle changes I should make (sigh). I have a somewhat healthy BMI of 23, so it’s not terrible, but unfortunately I have lived my whole life on processed and convenient quick things to cook and eat. (I read one woman’s comment on a thread that said, “At least I haven’t lived my life on Wonder Bread and processed food”. I thought, “hmmmm. I’m sunk. :). My husband and I work 4 jobs altogether, and I have a whole host of excuses why I can’t. :roll: so I’ll have to buckle down and figure out how to overcome my own obstacles. Plus I will think about finding a good research study that can look at clearing out plaque when it first starts to develop.

Thank you again for your insight and kindness. It is very much appreciated.
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MarcR »

MyDestinyisfromGod wrote:I have one Apoe4. They wouldn’t tell me what the other one was.
There's a quick way to figure it out for yourself. Open your 23andMe raw data file in a text editor like Notepad or Textedit, and search for "45412079". Likely there will only be one or two matches in the file, and one of them will be labelled "rs7412". That's the SNP you want. If you are "CC" at that SNP, you are a 3/4; if you are CT at that SNP, you are a 2/4. (You can search directly for rs7412, but unless your text editor has a way to include a trailing tab in your search string you will find many matches like rs7412983, rs7412149, etc.)

Please let me know what you find out as I want to understand the range of Dash outcomes for each APOE genotype.
(I had put those bits of information into the post that took me so long to write that it timed out and was lost :D ).
Perhaps you tried this already, but for future reference just in case you didn't ... when that has happened to me, I have been able to find the compose window with my text using the back button of my browser. Then I select the text, copy it into the clipboard for safekeeping, and resubmit. If that doesn't work, I can open up a new compose window and paste my text in from the clipboard.
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MyDestinyisfromGod »

Thanks! I did that, and I am a 3/4.
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MarcR »

For everyone following along at home, these are our four data points:
  1. 3/4: PHS=88, AZ50=86
  2. 3/4: PHS=89, AZ50=86
  3. 3/4: PHS=93, AZ50=86
  4. 4/4: PHS=100, AZ50=80
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by dcox »

MyDestinyisfromGod wrote:Hi my name is Lynn. I am 53. I just received my results from DASH. I am thankful for the people that have invested time and money to help shed light on the research and things we can do. I have an AZ50 of 86...
Sorry if I’m straying off the subject. I’ll check on some other forum to find out more about if he could have had early onset. I just want to know if those facts could skew my results. Also, I hope I didn’t post this twice. I am new to the forum and typed this all out last night. But with distractions, it took me long enough that when I hit submit, it made me log in again and the post was gone. I know a moderator needs to approve it first, but when I didn’t see anything today. I thought maybe it had actually been deleted.
Welcome MyDestinyisfromGod!
Thank you for sharing your story Lynn, you have been getting some great information from some very knowledgeable members of our community. I'm sorry about your dad and my heart goes out to you and your family as you search for answers about your dad and about your path forward. I love how you put your trust in God's grace and I'm sure He helped you find your way to this amazing community.

As you can already see there are many amazing and caring members here who are all on the journey to prevent, reverse, and stop AD in it's tracks. We are all here to find answers and support each other as we go along this journey. Dr. Dale Bredesen states in his book, The End of Alzheimer's (which I highly recommend if you haven't already read it), "No one should die from Alzheimer's Disease". He also talks in depth about plaques the good and the bad, and of course how to prevent and reverse AD. He definitely brings hope to those who feel like, or have been told this is a hopeless disease.

As you will also find there is a huge amount of information in these pages. Here are a few highly recommended pages that will give you great places to start taking a deeper dive into the site: the Wiki Page, where you will find some more in depth topics; "How-To" get the most out of the APoE4.info website page, is very easy to use and will allow you to spend your time on the site more efficiently. I also highly recommend the Primer it's a great place to start and to learn more about AD, it was written by Stavia, one of our most active members who is also a doctor, and is E4/E4 herself.

I understand how a busy schedule can make lifestyle changes seem daunting, but start small and doable, you don't have to tackle everything at once, and as you go along you will be amazed at how some small changes can make a huge difference.

We are excited to have you with us on this journey, please feel free to reach out to me and others as questions and concerns arise, we are in this together and are here to support, uplift, and encourage each other along the way.

Find your joy and hope in each new day and each new discovery along your path,
Deb

PS Just a quick tip that works for me if I am writing a long post; I will write it out in my word processor first then copy and paste it into my post, then I can save it along the way and if I get interrupted it is right where I left off.
Deb
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Re: Polygenic info used to identify risk of AD

Post by MyDestinyisfromGod »

Thank you Deb!!
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