My version of a Ketogenic Diet

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circular
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by circular »

GeorgeN I also found, back in 2013, that my advanced cardio markers were very good overall. Apo B was elevated to intermediate risk but Apo B:Apo A-1 ratio was optimal, while I had two of four tested inflammation markers in the intermediate zone: myeloperoxidase and hsCRP. This partly explains my plans to consult with Gundry. Not sure if the Apo B is an issue if that ratio is optimal etc. And what if inflammation markers are elevated but cardio markers don't suggest inflammation. I supposed that might depend which inflammation markers are elevated. So much to learn! :geek: I'm interested in the calcium scan and may look into that too.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

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W.... O.... W
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by Gilgamesh »

Julie, my friend, congratulations!! Wow!

I've been trying to cut back on SFA but I like macadamias so much! The question is how low is low enough? Let me start a new thread on that.

Again, wow!
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by Julie G »

Thank you for the kind words. Trust me, nobody was more surprised than I was with my results. I was able to personally test a few theories on myself. I’ve learned that reducing SFA reduces my lipid numbers in a good way. It was reassuring to see that I can easily stay mildly ketogenic (addressing my wacky BG, presumed mitochondrial defects, cerebral hypometabolism, and HX of cognitive issues) by using primarily MUFAs and PUFAs. Because I’m a hyper-absorber of dietary cholesterol, I’ve long surmised that higher fiber may have a beneficial effect. By focusing on raising my levels, I was able to demonstrate that this WAS true for me.

Susan, FWIW the only carbs I really limit are starchy carbs and sugary fruit. I basically eat an unlimited amount of low GI vegs. In a typical day; between 9-13 cups. That feels like a LOT to me. I just pick them wisely for optimal nutrition, high fiber and low GI. I eat lots of spinach, kale, red romaine, green cabbage, broccoli, celery, sweet onions, red cabbage, cauliflower, and more.

Circ, I know why my TC is so high- because 65-70% of my diet is comprised of fat :oops:. I know it sounds like a lot, but it translates to a few TBS of EVOO, a handful of so or nuts, some olives and avocado. Because it’s so calorically dense, it adds up quickly when I track in on cron-o-meter. Martha touches on your observation about my high TC. You’ll notice my LDL-C and LDL-P are discordant. Per MESA data (who knows if it’s true?) it appears to be healthful. Notice in the chart below, the healthiest place to be (with re. to CVD) is discordant with high LDL-C and low LDL-P.
Unknown-1.jpeg
George, trust me, I’ve observed the similarities in our approaches. I’ve noticed that you’ve earned some terrific LDL-Ps & glucose numbers and have tried to learn from your success. I’ve also tried to dissect why my past Gundry experiment failed with an LDL-P of 1,370. My best guess is that I was hypercaloric with the excess coming from extraneous EVOO. I most likely didn’t gain weight because I was eating excess fat. (For anyone who’s dabbled in LC, you know what I mean ;) ) This time around, I used just enough dietary fat to stay mildly ketogenic- nothing more. I also deviated from Dr. Gundry’s approach in that I ate fatty fish: salmon & sardines. It feels ludicrous to me to avoid fatty fish and take fish oil... which I also did- 900mg DHA/180-EPA. I was also very stressed at the time of my previous high LDL-P draw. We have some evidence (a la Dr. Patrick) that that may have played a part.

Like you, George, it’s been interesting to note the effect CR has had on my health. I feel weak when my BMI drops below 18.0. IMO. That ultimately feels counterproductive in that it restricts my ability to exercise. I need enough fuel on board to get a good hour of vigorous exercise in every day. It’s been equally interesting to notice the effect protein restriction has had on my overall health- another mixed bag. I naturally keep my protein to around 12% of diet- just feels good. Then when I start to feel weak/catabolic, I occasionally gorge on animal protein- 20%. I take a little glycine every night to counteract my dietary methionine, but increase on heavier protein days. I’ve noticed a disturbing trend that correlates with my protein intake. As my intake decreases, my immunity (as measured by IgG) also decreases- not good. I’m clearly a work in progress :?
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circular
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

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Juliegee forgive me for having it hit my funny bone when you said you failed your Gundry experiment because your LDL-P went up (presumably meaning you upped EVOO a la Gundry?). It was funny to me because as I understand it he'd be okay with that as long as it's not oxidized.

I've wondered about his emphasis on shellfish too, especially WRT e4 who need to watch copper, which is at least high in oysters (other shellfish too?). Well I have my latest Gundry lab results with phone consult scheduled for tomorrow. I'll post on the Gundry thread, but a sneak preview is he tests l-arginine, asymmetric dimethylarginine, symmetric dimethylarginine and ADMA/arginine ratio. I am showing intermediate for SDMI and high risk for the ratio, so I assume I'll need to up my arginine. I looked up foods high in arginine and there were all his crustaceans! Since they give me major histamine reactions (though I love them), I'll ask him about using gelatin which was a notch higher than crustaceans for arginine. That said, I havent heard what this is really all about and what the evidence behind it is. TBC on Gundry thread after I pull together my notes etc.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Julie G
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by Julie G »

I hear you, Circ :D... I'm assuming you know what I meant. THAT'S an aspect of his protocol that gives me pause because it contradicts published evidence. LDL-P may not matter, but I'm scared enough to want to keep it low until we know.

Because the relationship between lipids (LDL-P) and actual heart disease is far from proven, I love that George is actually testing with repeat EBTs while staying on Dr. Gundry's protocol. I'm aware that some, who are following Dr. Gundry's protocol, don't experience an LDL-P reduction. It would be interesting to follow their EBTs over time too.

Good luck with your phone call, Circ. I'm proud of you for doing this. I know you'll report back with lots of great information.
circular
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

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Yep, you assumed right. I know Gundry's camp's view on LDL-P is controversial. I don't know what the truth is. Do you have a sort top 1, 2 or 3 articles that provide evidence to show that Gundry's position is wrong, that in fact higher LDL-P is damaging in and of itself? As I think about it, it's probably from his perspective not just that the LDL isn't oxidized, but also that's it's not the size of particle more likely to burrow into the vessel walls, or are those the same thing?
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
circular
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by circular »

Juliegee, I just looked at my 1/2013 LDL-P and it was 881 :!: I thought it sounded familiar and went to look at yours again. 8-) Do you have a target?
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Julie G
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

Post by Julie G »

I think Dr. Krauss mentioned that he wanted E4 carriers to have an LDL-P less than 1200- well below the 50th%ile.

Last time I perused PubMed there were at least 7 large prospective and epidemiological studies associating elevated LDL-P with heart disease, BUT Dr. Gundry MAY be diminishing that risk by scrupulously focusing on eliminating inflammation and insulin resistance. Some E4 carriers (no matter how they eat) have higher LDL-P. It might be uber-important for them to address those risk factors. As with most aspects of E4, this is woefully understudied. I think we still have a lot to learn.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your call!
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Re: My version of a Ketogenic Diet

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Circ, when I looked into the same question I reluctantly concluded that even though a lot of people I respected had not revised their position that inflammation was the main risk, the smart money was on the newer position of LDL-P as an important, key risk factor. Luckily my numbers improved by removing most of the saturated fat from my diet, including ALL of the dairy fat and the coconut oil.

(I *really* wanted LDL-P to not be an issue, because mine was so high, but I liked my diet so much! I would love to be able to eat cheese and heavy cream again. And lots of coconut butter. But I'm scared of it now.)
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