New here? Some Best Practices

[debeauba]

Okay, I have changed my diet, lost about 20 pounds, eat lots of vegetables but my diet is not as strict as shown here.
I use duolingo to brush up my second language, French for brain exercise, have given away my TV and read every day.
I read Dr. Bredesen several years ago so have tried to follow as much as possible....was getting better until I lived in a place where water damage took place and wasn't corrected...so black mold took over in the basement. I have since lived in a second place that seemed to have black mold since I got very sick again. Right now I am working on cleaning up my body from the mold and continuing with the most best practices I can...I am a work in progress! By the way, I have one APOE4 gene and have recently found out that the other one is APOE2. I heard that APOE2 helps but I haven't read much about that yet. Anyone have something to read about that? Thank you...Barbara

[debeauba]

Reply to self...I see that I was being a tad laconic in my first posting in this group....I will now back up and see if I can find some information about APOE2 does and does not do regarding the effects of APOE4! The simplistic thing I have heard is that it cancels out APOE4 but I am fairly certain that this is not an all around effect and that there are things that APOE4 does that APOE2 does not help or reverse. I have already sensed some memory loss that I have somewhat reversed, which was then reversed the other way by Black Mold twice over.

Looking forward to being part of this endeavour....I have already reread Dr. Bredesen's Newest Book on Reversing
Alzheimers and have found some details about this, but not enough to get the overall conclusions....

Barbara

[Jane S]

Reply to self...I see that I was being a tad laconic in my first posting in this group....I will now back up and see if I can find some information about APOE2 does and does not do regarding the effects of APOE4! The simplistic thing I have heard is that it cancels out APOE4 but I am fairly certain that this is not an all around effect and that there are things that APOE4 does that APOE2 does not help or reverse. I have already sensed some memory loss that I have somewhat reversed, which was then reversed the other way by Black Mold twice over.

Looking forward to being part of this endeavour....I have already reread Dr. Bredesen's Newest Book on Reversing
Alzheimers and have found some details about this, but not enough to get the overall conclusions....

Barbara

Hello debeauba/Barbara,

You are in the right place to investigate answers to your questions. I am sure other members will provide you with some feedback. And your curiosity and interest in learning more about what your ApoE 2/4 status means will no doubt propel you to find lots of info on this site.

As a Support Team Intern, I'd like to officially welcome you to the forum and share some tools/resources you can use to explore the site, helping you get the most out of your experience.

The Primer is a detailed and informative resource written by a practicing M.D. with ApoE4/4. It includes information about the biochemistry of the ApoE4 gene and offers a variety of research-based prevention strategies.

Some helpful tips to navigate the site include the How-To Guide. It includes topics such as navigating the forum, private messaging, and searching. One great tip is using the quote (") button when replying to a post. Using the button will automatically alert the member of your response.

If you are interested in learning more about other members, you can check out Our Stories.

I'm so glad you joined. Please feel free to reach out anytime.

Warmly,

Jane

[NF52]

Reply to self...I see that I was being a tad laconic in my first posting in this group....I will now back up and see if I can find some information about APOE2 does and does not do regarding the effects of APOE4! The simplistic thing I have heard is that it cancels out APOE4 but I am fairly certain that this is not an all around effect and that there are things that APOE4 does that APOE2 does not help or reverse. I have already sensed some memory loss that I have somewhat reversed, which was then reversed the other way by Black Mold twice over.

Looking forward to being part of this endeavour....I have already reread Dr. Bredesen's Newest Book on Reversing
Alzheimers and have found some details about this, but not enough to get the overall conclusions....

Barbara

Hi Barbara!

Anyone who can use the word "laconic" and figure out to post on the forum has a ton of "cognitive reserve"! You're asking a question that is still confounding researchers, in part because people with ApoE 2/4 represent only about 2% of the population in the US and Europe, and any time you're trying to tease out in a small population what effects are due to genetics and what due to lifestyle, environment (Iceland vs. Japan vs. Australia might make a difference), early life experiences and education, access to health care and social suppports, access to diagnosis during life or access to donated brain tissue to study whether diagnoses of "Alzheimer's" or in fact that, or vascular disease, inflammation, Lewy body, etc.--you're facing a tough task!

So depending on how deep you want to dive, here are some sources:

APOE2/4, APOE3/4, and APOE4/4 genotypes compared to the most common APOE3/3 genotype in the neuropathologically confirmed autopsy group were associated with 2.68, 6.13, and 31.22 odds ratios, respectively.

Exceptionally low likelihood of Alzheimer’s dementia in APOE2 homozygotes from a 5,000-person neuropathological study

Odds ratios are ways of comparing the risk of one person (in this case someone with ApoE 3/3) to another person with different genes. The risk of someone with ApoE 3/3, about 75% of people of European descent, appears to be about 9% up to age 85. Studies of donated brains show that most people who develop dementia in their 80's or later have multiple types, and the most prominent may be vascular (blood vessels) or a newly recognized type with TDP-43 proteins called LATE https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/lat ... 2205032737

So using an odds ratio of 2.68 would be about a 24% risk to the age of 85--for someone my age of 71, not someone a generation or more younger. Researchers also agree that people with ApoE 2/4 have a later diagnosis, and seem to have both larger cortical volumes and longevity genes. My grandmother showed no signs of cognitive impairment until the age of 87, and was still reading news magazines when she died of colon cancer at age 93. I don't know if she was ApoE 2/4, but her long-lived family (her aunt lived to 98 with diabetes) suggests an ApoE 2/4, IMHO.

APOE2: protective mechanism and therapeutic implications for Alzheimer’s disease is a dense read, but here's some excerpts of conclusions that are encouraging:

• APOE*ε2 carriers appear to have better preserved cortical structures than non-carriers among MCI and AD patients [152, 154], a finding that requires validation in larger cohorts

• the cognitive effect of APOE*ε2 in non-demented [i.e. normal cognition] aged [i.e. over 65] people is more consistent across studies. APOE*ε2 carriers outperform non-carriers in memory tests, visuospatial measures, and global cognition in cross-sectional studies

• longitudinal studies show that APOE*ε2 carriers have lower rate of age-related decline in global cognition, episodic memory, executive function, and verbal learning ability

• the protective effect of APOE*ε2 on cognition is more prominent in females than in males.

We had a lovely woman with ApoE 2/4 on the forum for several years who organized parties in her condo, went to picnics on nearby Vancouver from her Seattle home, kept up with a long-time partner about a dozen years younger, and got herself tested at the Harborview Medical Center at the University of Washington to prove that her slight memory lapses were totally within normal limits--at age 84! She stopped posting only when they decided to move to a quiet new home on the Puget Sound during COVID and enjoy life.

I hope you exercise your wonderful curiosity, continue to post and find that life with ApoE 2/4 is both purposeful and joyful.

Nancy

[TheresaB]

Okay, I have changed my diet, lost about 20 pounds, eat lots of vegetables but my diet is not as strict as shown here.
I use duolingo to brush up my second language, French for brain exercise, have given away my TV and read every day.
I read Dr. Bredesen several years ago so have tried to follow as much as possible....was getting better until I lived in a place where water damage took place and wasn't corrected...so black mold took over in the basement. I have since lived in a second place that seemed to have black mold since I got very sick again. Right now I am working on cleaning up my body from the mold and continuing with the most best practices I can...I am a work in progress! By the way, I have one APOE4 gene and have recently found out that the other one is APOE2. I heard that APOE2 helps but I haven't read much about that yet. Anyone have something to read about that? Thank you...Barbara

ApoE2 has it's own unique qualities. For example, ApoE4s are hyperabsorbers when it comes to cholesterol (our cells like to hold onto it) where as ApoE2s are just the opposite (hyper-releasers?), 4s have greater risk for Alzheimer's, 2s seem to be protected, and on. But to think that an ε2/4 is basically a ε3/3 is not correct, it's more complicated than that.

We've had other 2/4s come on these forums before. Using the search function, here's a link to posts that have discussed ApoE2: search.php?keywords=Apoe2&terms=all&aut ... mit=Search

The wiki article ApoE ε4 and health conditions besides (or maybe contributing to) Alzheimer’s also has some discussion on ApoE2.

And if you're really motivated, here's a search link from Google Scholar using ApoE2 in the search box. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... poe2&btnG=

[mardenbrain]

I’m a newly diagnosed APOE 4/4 65 year old woman. I’m a retired neurologist. My first memory hit came at age 60, when my estrogen was stopped by breast cancer, and then blocked by estrogen-blocking medication to avoid cancer recurrence. They also blocked glucose to my frontal and temporal brain regions, giving me amnestic memory loss, which continues. I knew that ketones could supply energy to my brain, so I’ve been on the keto diet and off sugar since that time. I was recently tested for ApoE, and was not surprised to be affected, but was stunned to be 4,4! It was hard sharing this with my children, but I hope they will have time to do more to protect their brains! I was ignorant of the huge body of self-treatment information about preventing the progression of dementia until I was actually diagnosed as 4/4.

Over the past few months, I’ve finally gotten my behind out of the chair, and am exercising 8-10 hours/week, still eating keto & organic, and have added to my nutritional supplements… I’m finding answers to so many questions I have about…what to do. I refuse to go down without a fight! I am so thankful to find this website and group of companions! Blessings to all of you!

[debeauba]

Wow...there have been some wonderful posts while I was off and away....I took a cognoscopy with Apollo Health one month ago and they offered me a one month free use of their site as a precode person. This added so much to my reading, filling in the app and adapting to a new routine, including intermittent fasting and an attempt to make my diet closer to a keto diet....and doing the Brain HQ every day!! I was totally exhausted at first!! Now I have continued on as a paying member and have signed up with a health coach. And I am very much encouraged by the odds calculation for A2/A4 vs A3/A3! Looks like I should be exercising more but that will come, I know! Meanwhile, I am due to take another cognoscopy..will wait until morning for that when I am a tad brighter than now...You are a great bunch of people and I bless the day that I found out about this group. I'll be back sooner next time...debeauba...

[abalboa]

I’m a newly diagnosed APOE 4/4 65 year old woman. I’m a retired neurologist. My first memory hit came at age 60, when my estrogen was stopped by breast cancer, and then blocked by estrogen-blocking medication to avoid cancer recurrence. They also blocked glucose to my frontal and temporal brain regions, giving me amnestic memory loss, which continues. I knew that ketones could supply energy to my brain, so I’ve been on the keto diet and off sugar since that time. I was recently tested for ApoE, and was not surprised to be affected, but was stunned to be 4,4! It was hard sharing this with my children, but I hope they will have time to do more to protect their brains! I was ignorant of the huge body of self-treatment information about preventing the progression of dementia until I was actually diagnosed as 4/4.

Over the past few months, I’ve finally gotten my behind out of the chair, and am exercising 8-10 hours/week, still eating keto & organic, and have added to my nutritional supplements… I’m finding answers to so many questions I have about…what to do. I refuse to go down without a fight! I am so thankful to find this website and group of companions! Blessings to all of you!

Welcome mardenbrain,
Thank you for joining our site and posting in the forum. I am sorry about your 4/4 diagnosis. That is difficult to share with family but they are also lucky to have such a knowledgeable and optimistic role model! There really is so much we can do now preventatively with lifestyle and nutrition to avoid developing dementia even with disadvantageous genetics. We are also glad to welcome you here and hopefully this group will continue to be a resource for you and I bet you will be a wonderful resource for many. As your mentioned- there is a huge body of knowledge available to be shared.

As a Support Team Intern, I can share several tools & resources to help you get the most out of your experience if you would like to explore the site in more detail. The Primer is a detailed and informative resource written by a practicing M.D. with ApoE4/4. It includes information about the biochemistry of the ApoE4 gene and offers a variety of research-based prevention strategies.

Some helpful tips to navigate the site include the How-To Guide. It includes topics such as navigating the forum, private messaging, and searching. One great tip is using the quote (") button when replying to a post. Using the button will automatically alert the member of your response.

If you are interested in learning more about other members check out Our Stories.

Again, I am so glad you joined our forum. I look forward to hearing from you in the future. Please feel free to reach out anytime.

Warmly,
Angie

[152warren]

Under number 4 should probably be Vitamin D3 as opposed to just Vitamin D? The High Fat Vs High Carb makes sense as it basically is saying meat versus vegan diet and deciding if in the middle is best can be determined later as it is more complicated and controversial subject. There should be commas between salmon, tuna, and sardines. The location of pacific ocean wild caught could be added.
Also, perhaps add see your Dr. before starting an exercise program as some people could have underlying health issues. I would consider adding eggs as there is a study that states most women are choline deficient. Also, add green tea and coffee.

Newbie question, I’m 83, plenty of walking, swimming, pretty good cognitive reserve, I think, yet my ST memory is failing. I haven’t been tested but believe I’m on track to cognitive impairment of some kind, brain fog, insomnia, rely on gabapentin to help sleep. I’ve read most of the orientation information here.

What is best most cost effective test to determine APOE, 4/4 or whatever? Following Dr Bredesen, Hyman, Daniel Amen, Peter Attia. Many thanks.

[Tincup]

What is best most cost effective test to determine APOE, 4/4 or whatever?

Quickest would be a blood test. Without needing a doctor, go here and search on ApoE. This is to order though a 3rd party testing company that will order a Quest blood test for you. This is available in most, but not all (like NY) states in the US. The name of the test is "Cardio IQ® ApoE Genotype." It costs $239.

For less money, you can order the least expensive 23andme Ancestry saliva test for $119 (you would not have to give 23andme your real name in your account). Results will take a number of weeks, I don't recall as I did this in 2014. 23andMe won't do the interpretation at this price. Once you have your results, you'll need to access your raw data. Then you'll need to search separately for two different SnP's rs429358 & rs7412. For each SnP, you'll get two letters (one letter from each parent).

Code: Select all

rs429358	rs7412	Name
C		T	ε1
T		T	ε2
T		C	ε3
C		C	ε4

So let's say you got:
• rs429358(C;T)
• rs7412(C;C)

This would mean you have one rs429358: rs7412 pair that is C;C and another that is T;C. Then the C;C would be an ε4 and the T;C an ε3. Hence you'd be and E3/4.

More info here.

You could also pay $12 to run your 23andMe raw data file through Promethease and they will interpret the ApoE status along with a lot of other SnP's.

The 23andMe Health and Ancestry report will give you the ApoE interpretation for $229.

The only issue I've seen on quite a few tests with 23andMe for ApoE status was one person where, because they don't know which letter from rs429358 goes with which letter from rs7412 (i.e. they just know that you are C;T rs429358 not which parent each letter comes from & same for rs7412) it is ambiguous. "You have 2 SNPs in the APOE gene, which may indicate 1 copy of the ApoE-ε4 allele. Consumer genotyping is unable to determine if both of your SNPs are on the same strand. [PMID 21263195] If they are, you would be at increased risk of Alzheimer's disease in old age." From. This was true for one person I know. I don't know if the blood test solves this problem.

In my case, I had it tested first in a blood test, then in 23andMe as was doing this for everybody in the family and then my doctor ordered it in a blood test (that he does on all patients) as well. All my results agreed and this was true for my wife as well.