Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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J11
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

Post by J11 »

Thank you FrankT for commenting.

Yes, I did not want to be too specific about the brands of MB, though there are quite a number available online.

I have wondered about the light therapy approach. I read some interesting research about MB in relation to far infrared light, though I was unsure how this could be made operational. Reducing MB with ascorbic acid is about as far as I have gotten so far. One other feature of MB dosing that I had not considered at first was that in the trial they dosed two (?) times per day. It seemed easier to just dose once per day, though in terms of keeping the drug in your system probably twice per day on half doses would make more sense.

Thank you for the information on MB's photoactivation properties. What I recall was that far infrared light could reach perhaps ~ 1cm and the human cortex was surprisingly thin at perhaps 4mm? This did have me wondering whether the cortex was within the range of light therapy.

MB is one of the treatments that seems to be a cure for everything. There are a few of these such as ECGC, curcumin, resveratrol etc.. It is probably a good idea for basic preventative health to be aware of them and incorporate them into a a healthy lifestyle (especially the natural ones).
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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As has been previously posted on our site, UT Austin researcher, Francisco Gonzalez-Lima PhD, has been studying methylene blue (MB) for decades. I suggest anybody considering MB review his research or at least listen to a number of his podcast interviews.

A few of my takeaways from Dr. Gonzalez-Lima

MB has a biphasic dose response. At high doses, it acts as a pro-oxidant. At low doses it acts as an electron cycler in the electron transport chain including cytochrome oxidase activity, THIS IS WHERE THE BENEFIT IS FOR COGNITION. As a pro-oxidant, it can be used to treat urinary bladder infections. The MB will concentrate in the bladder and, even consuming low doses, the concentration will be high enough for it to be a pro-oxidant and kill the bacteria. This is a much better approach than antibiotics as the effect is only in the bladder. It can also be used to treat skin cancer. It is placed on the skin, then light is focused on the skin, creating a pro-oxidant environment and killing the tissue with the light on it. For this reason, it is unwise, and Dr. Gonzalez-Lima says not to combine light on the brain with MB (he studies both) as combining has the effect of increasing the dose.

For our purposes, Dr. Gonzalez-Lima suggests doses of 0.5 mg/kg body weight or less. In the Mercola interview (below), he suggests a way to personalize dosing is to start at 0.5 mg/kg and then lower the dose to the point you still see some blue in your urine, then that is sufficient. Half life of MB in the body is 12 hours and once a day dosing is sufficient.

Dr. Gonzalez-Lima strongly suggests using USP quality MB (Amazon and other online sources offer this). For his studies he has a compounding pharmacy compound MB with ascorbic acid. A Google search returns a number of compounding pharmacies that offer MB. A doctor’s prescription would be required to order from these pharmacies. He does suggest taking MB with ascorbic acid. The MB I use I had tested by a chemist friend in her lab with mass spectrometry for heavy metals. It passes the drinking water standard. I also test hair heavy metal's at least 4 times a year.

As mentioned, low dose MB acts as an electron cycler in the electron transport chain. This requires the MB going back and forth from the oxidized to the reduced state. Just consuming MB orally will create the leucomethylene blue because of stomach acid. This form is more bioavailable. However the patented form of leucomethylene blue does not alternate as completely, hence a less effective formulation.

In 2001, Dr. Gonzalez-Lima and others published a paper comparing the brains of normal with those diagnosed with AD. From an amyloid/tau perspective, there was no difference. The difference: “each of the six layers of the posterior cingulate demonstrated a decline in cytochrome oxidase activity in AD relative to controls.”

I have ordered this book by Jack de la Torre, suggested by Dr. Gonzalez-Lima. Alzheimer’s Turning Point: A Vascular Approach to Clinical Prevention

Here are some of the podcast interviews (while there is overlap, I learned something new from each one).

Decoding Superhuman one two

StemTalk one two

Peter Attia

Mercola (this is a video of the interview, a search will show many other audio options).

Tau or its prevention is not the object of taking MB, from what I learned from Dr. Gonzalez-Lima and his research. It is the upregulation of cytochrome oxidase activity. However, this is not patentable with the original form of MB, so the economic benefit to a pharma company is non existent.

I have Mark Sloan’s book but I think Dr. Gonzalez-Lima is a much better source.

For the messiness of MB, I've found ascorbic acid powder can help clean up counters and other things where MB gets spilled.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Tincup, thank you for your comments about MB. There is just so much to research; so much to know, so little time
to learn it all!

MB seems to be a lot like vitamin C; antioxidant at low dose -- pro-oxidant at high dose.
What is the pro-oxidant dose for MB? I think they dosed at ~250 mg MB in the phase 2.
Is that high enough for a prooxidant effect?

Interesting about the OXPHOS effect. I had thought that the MOA of MB was more related to tau ( you mention later in your post the rationale for why this might be mistaken). If it were more about OXPHOS, then other metabolic type drugs would have a similar effect such as MitoQ, and PQQ. It would be interesting to do a clinical trial comparing these treatments to see if there were an incremental effect with MB.

Thank you very much for mentioning the bladder. I hit a high polygenic risk for bladder cancer and was not sure what I could do about that. Why does MB concentrate in the bladder?

Thank you for commenting about not combining MB and light in the brain. I had been unclear about that.

My current game plan is 1.5 ml of 1% MB solution mixed with 5 ml of ascorbic acid in a wine glass to give reduced MB-- no mess no fuss. Is there something else that I could reduce it with that is sweeter perhaps glucose? Also I have tried sublingual dosing, would that be effective? Perhaps even dosing by application to the skin or even using microneedles?


That sounds like a good idea to go with a compounding pharmacy. Some of the online MB looks suspicious; I would prefer an online prescription and then an online order through a pharmacy.

From what I vaguely remembered one article spoke of how MB needs to convert to leuco-MB to enter the through the BBB. It is confusing though why, they used ~250 mg of MB in the phase 2, though only needed ~16mg ofleucoMB in the phase 3 clinical trials for taurx. If MB were equivalent to leuco-MB, then why are the doses so different. leucoMB seems much more powerful.

Yes, no mess for me lately. The big trick is to use one of those squeezable pipettes. Put water in the wine glass, add 5 ml + of ascorbic acid, pipette in 1.5 ml of MB 1% solution, stir. No problems. I have powder MB so at some point I might need a good mg scale to make my own 1% solution.

Interesting how AD is now being presented as a metabolic disease. One of the recent articles spoke of potentially using DCA as a method of switching glucose metabolism to OXPHOS.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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J11 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:44 pm MB seems to be a lot like vitamin C; antioxidant at low dose -- pro-oxidant at high dose.
What is the pro-oxidant dose for MB? I think they dosed at ~250 mg MB in the phase 2.
Is that high enough for a prooxidant effect?
Dr. Gonzalez-Lima has a "safe range" of 0.5 to 4.0 mg/kg. Methemoglobinemia is the indication for IV use of methylene blue in the ER. Gonzalez-Lima mentioned you want to inject slowly (5 minutes) to avoid the pro-oxidation. He said orally is less likely. He said when taking MB chronically, you want to be at the low (0.5-1 mg/kg) end of that. He also said they have given doses as high as 8 mg/kg to children for malaria,, but a reason for the high dose is the kids have parasites in their gut and a fair amount of the MB ends up in the parasites.
Interesting about the OXPHOS effect. I had thought that the MOA of MB was more related to tau ( you mention later in your post the rationale for why this might be mistaken). If it were more about OXPHOS, then other metabolic type drugs would have a similar effect such as MitoQ, and PQQ. It would be interesting to do a clinical trial comparing these treatments to see if there were an incremental effect with MB.
I'd listen to the good doc explain this, he's MUCH better than me. The studies they've done are amazing. My understanding, from Gonzalez-Lima is the Taurex researchers saw the tau benefits at high doses in in vitro, which is why they used them in vivo. Gonzalez-Lima said that by the time you get to tau, the neurons are dead (my paraphrase) so is pointless. The point of the Taurex approach it is a form that could be patented.
I hit a high polygenic risk for bladder cancer and was not sure what I could do about that. Why does MB concentrate in the bladder?
MB does not change in the body and is excreted by the kidney, so will concentrate in the bladder. Gonzalez-Lima mentioned there used to be a commercial product that was prescribed for bladder infections. I recall it was 65 mg. He said his now deceased mother used it for a long time and it was about 1 mg/kg for her.
Also I have tried sublingual dosing, would that be effective?
Gonzalez-Lima discourages sublingual and encourages taking through stomach, though this is for sublingual without the ascorbic acid.
Interesting how AD is now being presented as a metabolic disease.
Gonzalez-Lima has been making this case for a long time. A barrier is that MB isn't patentable, so no commercial interest. NIH doesn't want to fund for the same reason.

I highly suggest investigating Gonzalez-Lima's research more fully. The tau approach, IMO, is wrong. They are completely on the wrong track. The MB can positively impact any of the parts of the electron transport chain, not just complex 4. My opinion, this is the real deal and where the gold is. When Gonzalez-Lima's research damaged the ETC, dementia ensues. Add in MB and it is fixed. MB is also the antidote for ETC toxins like Rotenone & Cyanide. Gonzalez-Lima has used them in his research.

One thought for those who would want to order MB from a compounding pharmacy would be to call the pharmacy and ask for the name of docs who prescribe MB for dementia. A search brings up this pharmacy.

This is an Amazon search for USP MB.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Tincup, thank you for replying.

One thing I am unsure about with MB and taurx is the dose needed to stain urine blue. This has caused taurx a great deal of trouble because in a randomized clinical trial the placebo needs to have the same macroscopic effects (e.g., turning urine blue) or they will know they are not receiving active treatment. What I have found interesting is the idea that perhaps there might be a formulations of MB that could be so effective that the urine would no longer stain blue. Good formulations can often reduce the needed active dose by over 10 fold. I wonder whether such an approach might be applicable with taurx's clinical trials.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Has anyone seen the numbers for Lucidity presented at CTAD? I am seeing nothing online. Even the taurx website has no quantification. Lecanemab and Blarcamesine both have the slide decks and the videos posted online. It is critically important to move the results into open access so that we can all think about them and prepare for regulatory submissions/approvals. taurx is indicating that they want to go to regulators with the results. What are these results?

A Lecanemab & LMTM combination treatment would be extremely exciting and potentially extremely powerful. The LMTM option might largely eliminate safety concerns about Leca. If a patient were considered at higher risk, instead of treating with Leca, then LMTM would be the backup.

Until now we have been working under the assumption that patients on the rim of the Alzheimer black hole of impending cognitive collapse would have no fall back from first line beta-amyloid mab therapy. This turned the entire discussion into a dilemma: a high risk patient who did not receive mab treatment would then be at near certain risk of profound dementing illness over the medium term, but receiving the treatment could cause serious ARIA problems. While ARIA risk has largely been defused with Lecanemab it is still helpful for those patients who are at especially high risk or really are not great candidates for Leca to have some sort of an orthogonal treatment option: Enter LMTM. The narrative surrounding Lecanemab as higher risk continues to evolve ... (and erode).

It would be super exciting if next year we were to see an ecological registry clinical trial in which typical AD patients were enrolled and then allowed to choose how they would want to be treated (i.e., with Leca + LMTM, Leca mono or LMTM mono). Would be of great interest to have this more ecological context of how the treatments would be used in real world settings beyond merely reporting the topline. Of course, it will also of be of interest to see whether the combos will be additive, synergistic etc..

Opening up this second line of treatment is another big win for Lecanemab. Much of the residual safety risk is largely related to the lack of alternatives available to AD patients. LMTM now is that option.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Tincup wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:06 am This is an Amazon search for USP MB.
Note: I edited my original post below because I found a video from Jane Rogers that answered some of my questions. She also interviewed Francisco Gomez Lima, and he said you can take MB at the 0.5 mg/kg dose and wait until your urine turns clear before taking another dose, even it that means you don't take it every day.

I noticed that the compounding pharmacy in the above link uses powdered MB packaged in capsules. Has anyone tried packaging the powdered form of MB in capsules and taking it that way?

I also hear someone say Gonzalez Lima recommends taking MB with ascorbic acid to improve absorption. Is there an optimum ratio of MB to ascorbic acid?

Thanks!
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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xactly wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:01 pm I also hear someone say Gonzalez Lima recommends taking MB with ascorbic acid to improve absorption. Is there an optimum ratio of MB to ascorbic acid?
What I would do is carefully titrate the ascorbic acid into the MB until it turns clear. Gonzalez Lima's point is it is better absorbed as leuco MB. The ascorbic acid will turn the MB into leuco MB.
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Does this sound okay?: I dissolve a 1 gram vitamin C tablet in about an ounce of water. I pour about 5-10 ml of that into a small cup and put my MB in it (20 drops for now of the 1 mg/ drop as I’m still playing around with figuring the optimal amount). I add a tiny dribble of Child Life vitamin c (sweetened children’s vitamin c syrup) and let it sit for about 15-60 minutes and it mostly clears up sometimes it’s a faint blue still. The Child Life syrup gives it just a tiny bit of sugar/flavoring to adjust the bitter/sour taste, obviously I try to minimize the amount due to sugar content. I make up a new batch of vitamin c every 2-3 days. Minimal mess and fuss each day.
Does the ascorbic acid get deactivated during the process of interacting with the MB?
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Re: Alzheimer's Cured by Methylene Blue Celebration Thread!

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Veero wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:52 pm Does this sound okay?: ...
Sounds like what I described. I just accept the taste, but I have a number of things I consume that have a bad taste.
Does the ascorbic acid get deactivated during the process of interacting with the MB?
I don't know, but I would assume so.
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