Prodrome blood test results, initial and over time

[Maria4/4]

Citicoline is supposed to be a source of choline that does not contribute to TMA production because it is absorbed whole, and the choline is released from it only after absorption (possibly by the liver?)

Thanks for the info on Citicoline and TMAO, Quantifier. Though I could, I don’t want to get all of my choline in supplement form. I prefer eating choline rich foods and supplementing with citicoline. When I did the Chris Masterjohn choline calculator, based on my genetics, to get enough choline I’d need to eat eight egg yolks ( or equivalent) a day.

For now,I’m trying to interrupt the TMA pathway in my microbiome; I have my garlic standing by after eating two eggs on my dinner salad. And popping a resveretrol.

Hi Floramaria and Quantifier,

I take Phosphatidylcholine and try to eat eggs regularly, so I was also a little bit worried about TMAO, but I found an article about a new study that is very interesting for us.

"Ten years ago, researchers at The Cleveland Clinic published one of the first studies proposing a link between TMAO, dietary choline, and cardiovascular disease risk,5 but have just published a new study that offers some important new information about choline from eggs, one of the best food sources of choline available. The new study published in The American Journal of Medicine explored the difference between consuming eggs, a whole food source of choline, and taking supplemental choline on TMAO production, and concluded “… it may be more prudent to recommend natural sources of choline, like eggs, over supplements.”6

In this (new) study of healthy adults, TMAO concentrations increased from baseline to end-of-study in the participants who consumed a choline bitartrate supplement alone or in combination with whole eggs or egg whites; however, there was no change in TMAO concentrations in the participants who consumed eggs alone or for those who took supplement of phosphatidylcholine, a form of choline found in eggs."

Link to the article: https://www.incredibleegg.org/articles/ ... -eggs-tmao

I think this is good news

Do you know the advantages of taking Citicoline versus Phosphatidylcholine?

Thanks,
Maria 4/4

[SusanJ]

Do you know the advantages of taking Citicoline versus Phosphatidylcholine?

I think it depends on what your goals are. Choline gets metabolized differently depending on your body's needs. For example, I'm post-menopausal and have PEMT variants that suggest that Phosphatidylcholine (skipping the PEMT choline conversion step) might be the best option for me between the two. Citicoline is a precursor to Phosphatidylcholine but often taken by people who feel sharper when taking it. This is one where it's worth tracking side effects to see if one or the other is better for you. Citicoline makes me buzzed, too much Phosphatidylcholine can make me depressed. Go slow and titer up with either option.

Here's an old post that briefly describes the pathways of choline.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1710&hilit=choline#p23108

FYI, Citicoline = CDP choline as described in the post above.

[Maria4/4]

Do you know the advantages of taking Citicoline versus Phosphatidylcholine?

I think it depends on what your goals are. Choline gets metabolized differently depending on your body's needs. For example, I'm post-menopausal and have PEMT variants that suggest that Phosphatidylcholine (skipping the PEMT choline conversion step) might be the best option for me between the two. Citicoline is a precursor to Phosphatidylcholine but often taken by people who feel sharper when taking it. This is one where it's worth tracking side effects to see if one or the other is better for you. Citicoline makes me buzzed, too much Phosphatidylcholine can make me depressed. Go slow and titer up with either option.

Here's an old post that briefly describes the pathways of choline.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1710&hilit=choline#p23108

FYI, Citicoline = CDP choline as described in the post above.

Great input Susan! I will try CDP choline as soon as my phosphatidylcholine package endes to see if I notice some improvements. Thank you so much!

Maria 4/4

[floramaria]

More on comparing first and second ProdromeScan results:

BACKGROUND:
A couple of pages back in this thread I reported my distress after meeting with Justine to discuss my second ProdromeScan.
With my own limited knowledge, comparing the results of the two tests and seeing that many levels had decreased after supplementing with ProdromeNeuro and ProdromeGlia for over year, I'd thought, "oh, my gosh, I'm getting worse, not improving". After the consultation with Justine, I was even more concerned. Her interpretation was far more dire than my own. That's when I posted.

UPDATE:
I was able to get a meeting with Dr Goodenowe to compare and understand the results of my two
ProdromeScans. It was a far better experience. Dr. Goodenowe was able to put the two ProdromeScans side by side on the computer screen so I could follow along as he gave me his interpretation.

Though some levels had gone down, overall my results looked fairly consistent to him between the two ProdromeScans. He did not think my condition had deteriorated.
He emphasized the ratio between ethanolamines and plasmalogens, more than the individual plasmalogen levels, and by that measure, he saw improvement.

While Justine made it sound like I was about to drop into an abyss of bad health and probably get Alzheimer's Disease if I did not up my intake of both ProdromeNeuro and ProdromeGlia to 5 bottles/month, his approach was far more reassuring and reasonable.
He thought 1 ml /day for me is a "maintenance dose". To optimize, more would be better
but he didn't see a drastic need to improve. He thought the ProdromeScan results were still very good except for my uric acid and creatinine which are both too low. Since he developed the ProdromeScan and has a comprehensive understanding of all of the science it, including relative values and relationships, I trust his interpretation.

His explanation of my ProdromeScan results made sense and was contextualized. He did not give me a catastrophic picture of what would happen if I continued with 1 ml /day, which he believes is helping me.
He is aware of and sensitive to the reality that not everyone can afford to take what he considers to be optimal amounts of ProdromeNeuro and ProdromeGlia. He said they are working hard at Prodrome Sciences to bring down the prices; ProdromeGlia has been reduced to 1/2 its previous price.
I was happy to learn that he did not think there was any reason for me to take some of the additional expensive supplements Justine had recommended like MitoPure and BodyBio PC.

It was very reassuring to meet with him and discuss the ProdromeScans.

I have resumed taking ProdromeNeuro and ProdromeGlia and plan to continue.

[Julie G]

Thanks for that additional info, Marie. I'm so glad that you were able to speak with Dr. Goodenowe and actually discuss both scans side-by-side. Kudos on the better results.

[floramaria]

Thanks for that additional info, Marie. I'm so glad that you were able to speak with Dr. Goodenowe and actually discuss both scans side-by-side. Kudos on the better results.

Thanks, Julie! Yes, it was very helpful to have the side-to-side scans.

[DebbieG]

A couple of months ago my parents and I met with Dr. Goodenowe's health coach (?). She was very unprofessional and dismissive of my parents' concerns. After the meeting, they decided to stop using Prodrome, having had doubts as to its value going in. We asked her to record and she didn't start the recording so I asked her again. She stopped it at some point again but by then it was clear there wouldn't be anything useful on it anyway.

Her behavior was pretty astonishing, but the thing that bugs me is that Dr. Goodenowe could choose to create a report that helps the reader understand their status relative to the ratio between ethanolamines and plasmalogens, yet he continues to use a format that requires interpretation.

[Gail]

More on comparing first and second ProdromeScan results:



UPDATE:
I was able to get a meeting with Dr Goodenowe to compare and understand the results of my two
ProdromeScans. It was a far better experience. Dr. Goodenowe was able to put the two ProdromeScans side by side on the computer screen so I could follow along as he gave me his interpretation.



While Justine made it sound like I was about to drop into an abyss of bad health and probably get Alzheimer's Disease if I did not up my intake of both ProdromeNeuro and ProdromeGlia to 5 bottles/month, his approach was far more reassuring and reasonable.

Hi Floramaria!

Thank you for the update. I am wondering how you were able to get a meeting with Dr. Goodenowe? But I am happy with your new report and happy that you were able to confirm that a low dose of his Plasmalogens would be an option for you going forward. Congrats on your better report and the improvements you were able to make!

I have been on the Bredesen Protocol for a year now - and I have been on Estradiol for close to a year. I have been taking Prodrome Plasmalogens for close to a year. So, of course, I have been thinking of a Prodrome Scan retest to see if all these lifestyle tweaks helped me (including a year of Prodrome supplements) . But I don't know how I would interpret the results in a useful way. I don't think Dr. Goodenowe has the time to meet with all who take his Prodrome Scan test. I know that Dr Goodenowe has changed his test results format page at least once because it was hard to understand. I'm hoping like Debbie above that he will tweak his test results to make it more understandable to the user.

The Prodrome Scan retest would be at least $400 (including our 25% discount code). It's hard to justify that if you can't understand whether you have been making improvements or not. Going through the Prodrome Health coach review of the results doesn't seem to be a good option.

Is there anyone else on this forum that has done a retest? What was your experience and did the retest help you?

Thanks in advance for any advice from the astute members on this forum and from you Floramaria!

Gail
3/4

[Julie G]

A couple of months ago my parents and I met with Dr. Goodenowe's health coach (?). She was very unprofessional and dismissive of my parents' concerns.

This is concerning, Debbie. Do you know the health coach's name? You make some good points regarding the current scan. I know that Dr. Goodenowe and his team are working on making the report easier to comprehend although I'm not sure where they are with those changes.

[floramaria]

Thank you for the update. I am wondering how you were able to get a meeting with Dr. Goodenowe?
Gail
3/4

Hi Gail, I think that I was able to get the follow up consultation with Dr. Goodenowe because even though I’d made it very clear via email before my consultation with Justine that my objective in retesting was to compare the two tests, when I had the consultation with Justine she told me the test results from my earlier test were not available. If she had let me know that in advance, rather than when we met, I could have sent her a copy of my first ProdromeScan. She could have prepared for our meeting by looking at the two scans side by side, assuming she does some preparation before she consults with clients.

I don’t know why she was unable (or unwilling?) to locate my first ProdromeScan in their records. Dr. Goodenowe did not have trouble finding it.