lightweight newbie

Newcomer introductions, personal anecdotes, caregiver issues, lab results, and n=1 experimentation.
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JeanFein
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lightweight newbie

Post by JeanFein »

Hello, I’m Deb. Apo E3/E4.

I am 66 and my mother died with Alzheimers at age 79. She wasn’t tested, but it’s a pretty solid guess where the E4 came from. I have been on this journey for all my life, but only aware of it for a couple of months. Memory has been declining for a number of years and cognition has been in a more rapid and recent decline.

There was also cancer in my family (mother/sister) and after reading the China Study (and half a dozen other books) about 6 or 7 years ago, we (my husband and I) became veganish. We were very religious about the meats, but we did get a vegetable pizza once a week that was light on the cheese. Breads and pasta represented a significant portion of the calories that I consumed as a veganish.

With the cognitive decline, I saw a functional doctor three months ago and then again two months ago for the results of the initial testing. I had never heard of ApoE4 prior to that visit. The initial testing showed a number of markers that were at least a little out of whack, but nothing in the red. A number of supplements were recommended, including D (very low), omega-3, a B-complex. The biggest change that was recommended was a diet change.

A second complaint for the doctor was weight loss. When we went veganish, we both lost about 20 pounds in relatively quick order and then stabilized. My weight started a second decline about a year ago and I lost another 15 pounds. This left me at a BMI of 18.9 sort of scraping the bottom of the ideal range. My goal is to gain back some of those lost 15 pounds because I felt better when I had them.

The doctor didn’t have a lot of suggestions for gaining back the lost weight. I have also been to a nutritionist a couple of times since then as well to try to zero in on the diet. We were able to detect a few things in these discussions: no grains; no dairy; limited SMASH fish and even more limited lean meat; limited net carbs; many non-starchy vegetables; low glycemic index; moderate protein; and lotsa oil (avocado and EVOO). This removed most of my favorite foods and virtually all of my calories from the diet and forced us to look at food from a statistical point of view.

We have scrambled for the last couple of months with this titanic shift. Luckily, the previous shift to veganish prepared us a bit for the disruption. We read a couple of Bredesen books, a Perlmutter book, a Daniel Amen book, and several directed cookbooks. My husband prepared a chart that lists the macro ingredients and glycemic index / glycemic load for many of the foods that we had been eating and a few more that were added by the partial reintroduction of meat/fish.

We have been able to stabilize my weight and even get back a couple of pounds, but it would appear to be very difficult to gain any significant weight using the prescribed constraints. A very substantial number of my calories are coming from nuts. Given the large number of missing ingredients, many of the recipes are somewhat monotonous. Luckily, we both like vegetables, but they are not a major source of calories.

I’m pretty sure that gaining weight is a problem for more than just me. I would very much like to hear some solutions (other than drinking a cup of EVOO every day).
JD2020
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by JD2020 »

JeanFein wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:24 pm
I’m pretty sure that gaining weight is a problem for more than just me. I would very much like to hear some solutions (other than drinking a cup of EVOO every day).
Hi Deb, welcome. There's a lot in your post, and hopefully those more experienced than I can assist. I wanted to respond and let you know that you are not alone on the weight loss issue. I spent 2020 trying to figure out how to do keto while also not cratering completely. It didn't take long for me to hit that 18.5 BMI also. I also wondered how many shots of olive oil it would take to at least maintain weight. It was exhausting.

I have spent 2021 trying to regain weight, without much success. I let the concern re keto go and tried to focus on eating enough of the foods that I like in an amount that would allow for weight gain. I was already eating high quality foods (organic, pasture raised, etc) and not much flour or sugar products.

I am going to see how my blood work is after this past year. If all is well, then I am going to add hearty breads back in. It is really hard to gain weight on healthy fats, clean protein, and veggies, and I feel like I don't have any cushion.

So....no solutions from me, but I wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
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floramaria
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by floramaria »

JeanFein wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:24 pm Hello, I’m Deb. Apo E3/E4.
My goal is to gain back some of those lost 15 pounds because I felt better when I had them.
I’m pretty sure that gaining weight is a problem for more than just me. I would very much like to hear some solutions (other than drinking a cup of EVOO every day).
Hi Deb, Welcome! Congratulations on getting started on this journey to improve your cognition. It sounds like you have taken some excellent steps in that direction!

You are absolutely right that gaining weight is a problem for more than just you! As you restrict carbohydrates and keep protein intake moderate, the area that is left for increasing caloric intake is fats. Since being underweight has been linked to cognitive decline, you definitely want to be sure not to drop more weight, and your goal of gaining a few pounds makes sense. From your description it sounds like you are following a ketogenic diet. One strategy that some people adopt if weight loss is a concern is cycling out of ketosis for one or two days a week. On those days the diet is liberalized. While still eating healthy Whole Foods, on non-keto days you can increase resistant starches like sweet potatoes. For myself, on those days, I sometimes indulge in pizza with almond crust. Because it is higher in carbs than my full keto days, it throws me out of ketosis for the rest of the day, but I always am back in ketosis the following day. That is one of the benefits of being keto-adapted; you can switch in and out easily.

Nut butters are one of my favorite ways to add calories. Recently on Lectin-Free Solutions (on YouTube) I found a great recipe for crackers made from walnuts. I’ve also become adept at making muffins and pancakes that are keto compliant. Diversifying the diet is really helpful if you are going to maintain dietary changes long term.

Are you checking ketones with a meter? Though I had to be very restrictive in my foods when I was first trying to get into ketosis, I have found that now I can “get away with” staying in ketosis while eating more carbs, so if you have that to look forward to! I may have made a mistaken leap here, believing ketosis is your goal, but much of this would still apply.
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JeanFein
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by JeanFein »

Thanks for the reply. The list of restrictions is somewhat daunting. Hoping for some reversal of the cognitive issues, I have been trying to stay below Bredesen's GI line of 35. The only places that I have really cheated so far is on boiled sweet potatoes GI=44 (my husband grows them), and a couple of fruits that are GI about 50. I eat these after a salad to slow the glycemic response. I will go back for more testing in a couple of months to see if there has been any initial progress on my numbers. I may also want to track your diet expansion to see how that works for you.
JeanFein
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by JeanFein »

Yes, I'm trying the ketoflex 12/3. I do make the almond bread and use nut butter, guacamole, or olive oil 'butter' on it but have not yet tried an almond-crust pizza. Is there a recipe available for the almond crust? I also make the almond/chia chips that are good with guacamole/salsa. Where could I find that walnut recipe? I have a keto meter, but the best I have scored so far is .2 at the end of the fast period. This is the first that I had heard about eventually being able to cycle in and out of ketosis. Given how long it seems to take to get there, I wouldn't want to wreck that with slice of german chocolate cake and then have to go another month or so to get back there.
ro.oconnor
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by ro.oconnor »

JeanFein wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:24 pm Hello, I’m Deb. Apo E3/E4.

I am 66 and my mother died with Alzheimers at age 79. She wasn’t tested, but it’s a pretty solid guess where the E4 came from. I have been on this journey for all my life, but only aware of it for a couple of months. Memory has been declining for a number of years and cognition has been in a more rapid and recent decline.

There was also cancer in my family (mother/sister) and after reading the China Study (and half a dozen other books) about 6 or 7 years ago, we (my husband and I) became veganish. We were very religious about the meats, but we did get a vegetable pizza once a week that was light on the cheese. Breads and pasta represented a significant portion of the calories that I consumed as a veganish.

With the cognitive decline, I saw a functional doctor three months ago and then again two months ago for the results of the initial testing. I had never heard of ApoE4 prior to that visit. The initial testing showed a number of markers that were at least a little out of whack, but nothing in the red. A number of supplements were recommended, including D (very low), omega-3, a B-complex. The biggest change that was recommended was a diet change.

A second complaint for the doctor was weight loss. When we went veganish, we both lost about 20 pounds in relatively quick order and then stabilized. My weight started a second decline about a year ago and I lost another 15 pounds. This left me at a BMI of 18.9 sort of scraping the bottom of the ideal range. My goal is to gain back some of those lost 15 pounds because I felt better when I had them.

The doctor didn’t have a lot of suggestions for gaining back the lost weight. I have also been to a nutritionist a couple of times since then as well to try to zero in on the diet. We were able to detect a few things in these discussions: no grains; no dairy; limited SMASH fish and even more limited lean meat; limited net carbs; many non-starchy vegetables; low glycemic index; moderate protein; and lotsa oil (avocado and EVOO). This removed most of my favorite foods and virtually all of my calories from the diet and forced us to look at food from a statistical point of view.

We have scrambled for the last couple of months with this titanic shift. Luckily, the previous shift to veganish prepared us a bit for the disruption. We read a couple of Bredesen books, a Perlmutter book, a Daniel Amen book, and several directed cookbooks. My husband prepared a chart that lists the macro ingredients and glycemic index / glycemic load for many of the foods that we had been eating and a few more that were added by the partial reintroduction of meat/fish.

We have been able to stabilize my weight and even get back a couple of pounds, but it would appear to be very difficult to gain any significant weight using the prescribed constraints. A very substantial number of my calories are coming from nuts. Given the large number of missing ingredients, many of the recipes are somewhat monotonous. Luckily, we both like vegetables, but they are not a major source of calories.

I’m pretty sure that gaining weight is a problem for more than just me. I would very much like to hear some solutions (other than drinking a cup of EVOO every day).
Welcome to the ApoE4.Info community, Deb! I'm so glad to see that you have already been warmly welcomed by other members, as well. We are so glad that you found us! It is commendable that you are taking control of your health and have the desire to learn and seek out solutions that work for you!

As an intern here at ApoE4.Info, I would like to highlight a few features that you may find useful while navigating the website. You may have already discovered in your look around the boards, that there is a helpful search tool available in the top right-hand side of the webpage that you can access by selecting the three dots next to your log-in id. There you can search for topics that are of interest to you.

You may also find the Primer helpful, as it includes researched-based prevention strategies.

Additionally, you may want to check out the How-to Guide which includes tricks and tips for getting the most out of the discussion forums.

And finally, since you have already shared about your journey in your post, you may be interested in visiting Our Stories. There you can browse the stories of other members and if you are comfortable, share your own.

I hope you will continue to find the site helpful on your health journey. If there is anything else you want to know and can't find it on the site, please don't hesitate to reach out!

Warmly,
Rosanne
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floramaria
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Re: lightweight newbie

Post by floramaria »

JeanFein wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:35 pm Yes, I'm trying the ketoflex 12/3. I do make the almond bread and use nut butter, guacamole, or olive oil 'butter' on it but have not yet tried an almond-crust pizza. Is there a recipe available for the almond crust? I also make the almond/chia chips that are good with guacamole/salsa. Where could I find that walnut recipe? I have a keto meter, but the best I have scored so far is .2 at the end of the fast period. This is the first that I had heard about eventually being able to cycle in and out of ketosis. Given how long it seems to take to get there, I wouldn't want to wreck that with slice of german chocolate cake and then have to go another month or so to get back there.
Yes! good idea to hold off on that German Chocolate Cake! :lol:
It also took me a frustratingly long time to get into a good level ketosis even though I was being far more careful about what I ate than I am now. The initial adaptation phase can be difficult.... but worthwhile. My way of thinking of it is that it took my body awhile to learn to use ketones. So I encourage you to stick with the dietary plan you are on, knowing that after you get over the initial hump things most likely will be easier. Are you tracking your percentage of fats ? Not eating enough fat can also make getting into ketosis difficult, especially if you are at a slender body weight.

I am sure there are almond crust recipes on the internet, but I I haven't tired those yet. I use the Capello's crust with no topping. (Frozen section of health food stores) That way I can use just a little buffalo mozzarella or a sheep or goat cheese, since I am only eating A2 dairy, and load it with organic vegetables. Since I am not making the crust, this is a really quick meal. You've caught my interest though with your questioning I may look for an almond crust and give it a try. If I find one that works well, I'll let you know.
The walnut crackers are on the YouTube channel "Lectin Free Solutions."
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IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
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