Detox without testing

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
Post Reply
circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Detox without testing

Post by circular »

Since I think that as a human in today's world I'm certain to have some elevated toxins, I don't plan to pay for toxin tests. (If I had a guaranteed, financially stable retirement, I would be happy to!) So, what might be a good 'protocol' for someone like me who isn't going to test first but wants to implement gentle detoxing. I'm not willing to put up with constipation, trading one problem for another. How bad is that? Maybe in order to detox there's no way to avoid constipation until the process is 'complete'? This is a major deterrant to me. Good digestion is paramount to health and probably detoxification too.

I'm thinking the most gentle detoxifiers might be:

- chlorella
- cruciferous veggies (although they cause me bloating)
- sweat
- maybe charcoal but I think it has messed with my digestion in the past
- NAC for glutathione levels
- curcumin

But I also imagine that each one tends to detoxify certain toxins and not others. Are there any that are gentle "broad spectrum" detoxifiers?

If I use charcoal or bentonite and it causes constipation, will it be an effective, if much slower, detoxifier if I use it a couple times a week?

I've heard that cilantro, which I was using regularly in salads, crosses the blood brian barrier where it can cause problems, maybe by dislodging toxins there???

Can we come up with a reasonable detox protocol for people who want to focus on suboptimal financial health and physical health at the same time?
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
User avatar
floramaria
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 1423
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:22 am
Location: Northern New Mexico

Re: Detox without testing

Post by floramaria »

circular wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:54 am Since I think that as a human in today's world I'm certain to have some elevated toxins, I don't plan to pay for toxin tests. (If I had a guaranteed, financially stable retirement, I would be happy to!) So, what might be a good 'protocol' for someone like me who isn't going to test first but wants to implement gentle detoxing. I'm not willing to put up with constipation, trading one problem for another. How bad is that? Maybe in order to detox there's no way to avoid constipation until the process is 'complete'? This is a major deterrant to me. Good digestion is paramount to health and probably detoxification too.

I'm thinking the most gentle detoxifiers might be:

- chlorella
- cruciferous veggies (although they cause me bloating)
- sweat
- maybe charcoal but I think it has messed with my digestion in the past
- NAC for glutathione levels
- curcumin

But I also imagine that each one tends to detoxify certain toxins and not others. Are there any that are gentle "broad spectrum" detoxifiers?

If I use charcoal or bentonite and it causes constipation, will it be an effective, if much slower, detoxifier if I use it a couple times a week?

I've heard that cilantro, which I was using regularly in salads, crosses the blood brian barrier where it can cause problems, maybe by dislodging toxins there???

Can we come up with a reasonable detox protocol for people who want to focus on suboptimal financial health and physical health at the same time?
Hi circ,
I am not an expert on detoxification but to me your approach makes sense. All of the things you mention sound reasonable. I believe that you are correct that we are all living in a world where we are bound to be exposed to toxins. Supporting general detoxification pathways seems like a good general policy. Dr. Bredesen often mentions Joe Pizzono’s book The Toxin Solution and I recently heard Neil Nathan recommend that also, as a “practical approach”.
I believe NN recommends Chlorella as well as charcoal and clay for “everyday detox”. Even with those, he recommends starting low and slow.
Keeping your bowels regular is important. Would adding more fiber while taking charcoal and clay counteract that problem? Increasing Fiber is often recommended to help with detox. And while I am not answering this from a point of view of actual knowledge, my thinking is that you want to avoid constipation, and that it would be better to take less of anything that tends to cause constipation, and add more fiber, rather than getting constipated and hoping that you are just detoxing more slowly. I find “Healthy Fiber” which JulieG recommended once long ago, to be easy on my stomach. I get it from Vitacost.

I bought Joe Pizzorno’s book but didn’t ever follow it. Nor am I doing the Neil Nathan 3 C’s, so I have no personal experience to draw on with those. For my own generalized “daily detox” , I sweat, eat a lot of fiber, drink a lot of water, keep bowels regular, and supplement alternately with NAC or liposomal glutathione.
Inflammation interferes with detoxification, so the curcumin you have in your list might be supportive on that level.

As for cilantro, it seems unlikely that the amount you’d be eating in your salads would be enough to dislodge toxins in your brain. Maybe if you were juicing it by the bushel….

Best wishes for 2022!
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
ReCODE 2.0 Health Coach with Apollo Health
NewRon
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:04 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by NewRon »

Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 60
circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by circular »

floramaria wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:30 pm Dr. Bredesen often mentions Joe Pizzono’s book The Toxin Solution and I recently heard Neil Nathan recommend that also, as a “practical approach”.
Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply floramaria. I'm glad you don't think I'm being unreasonable :)

I like your idea of alternating between NAC and liposomal glutathione, as well as the notion that increasing fiber (even more) could help detox without the constipation caused by some other detox agents. Next I have yet to look into whether high fiber interferes with mineral absorption.

Apparently curcumin has heavy metal chelating effects in addition to its anti-inflammatory role. As of this 2014 article, this still need further study, but I haven't had time to pursue subsequentn research into it:

Protective effect of curcumin against heavy metals-induced liver damage

I found a podcast online with Joe Pizzono and offer these notes to the forum. For me it is a mix of things I've heard or read before and new ideas:

Eliminate fragrances.

Prepare body
  • first 2 weeks - where are they coming from …. stop them from coming in
  • next 2 weeks - prepare gut, good bacteria
  • next 2 weeks - work on the liver
  • next 2 weeks - work on kidneys
Detox
  • Slight caloric restriction to reduce the fat cells.
  • Supplements to alkalize the body. Acid interferes with detox.
  • Saunas with lots of fluids and trace minerals.
  • Increase fiber dramatically. 100-150 gms per day when we evolved. Liver dumps the chemicals and metals into the gut. They need the fiber or the toxins will get reabsorbed.
[I find it hard to get 100-150 gms of fiber per day!]

Lifestyle
  • Organic
  • Avoid packaged food in plastic or put in glass container
  • Think Dirty app
  • Lots more in his book
  • Water fasting
He does water fasting with thousands of patients. Done properly it's important:
  • what is the toxic load
  • don’t go beyond a one-day water fast without supervision, in case you release too many toxins
  • follow the steps above first
Fasting can get mercury out quickly but faster than the body can clear it, which can cause problems in the brain.

[If this is true, it would be better to detox before going on a dietary pattern that involves significant fasting. I wonder if it only applies to mercury for some reason or also to other toxins. My guess it that it applies to other ones as well.]

Reduce Toxins
  • Filter shower water. He thinks it’s much easier for toxins to get into the body when inhaled compared with when drinking water, but he doesn't have any hard data on this.
  • Filter air everywhere
  • Wear only slippers in the house (don’t track)
  • Organic food only (grow your own when you can)
  • Don’t cook at high temps (AGEs harden all tissues by cross-linking collagen.)
  • Don’t use Teflon. Ceramic coatings look less problematic, but they need to be formally tested after they've been used for a while rather than new. Use stainless steel.
  • Stir fry veggies in water not oil. This will allow you to cook it with less heat. Add the oil when you eat it.
[More] Budget Options
  • EWG.org has the clean 15 of produce. These either don’t use many pesticides when growing or they don’t stick to the food during processing.
  • Smoothies … avoid kale (has organophosphates) but all foods in large quantities and blended will be a problem if they’re not organic. Smoothies from stores and restaurants that aren’t completely organic … AVOID.
  • Chinese products are heavily toxic. China releases 50% of the world’s mercury.
IV Chelation

You can get worse because it stirs things up before your body can get rid of it.

Safe Mercury Detox
  • You can start this once mercury is at 51 (I think he means if you get it down to 51, to avoid too much being released at once?)
  • Eliminate sources
  • NAC (binds methyl mercury from fish which helps get rid of it through urine, increases glutathione which helps cells get rid of the mercury through the liver). [I have read elsewhere that NAC has a ‘mild’ effect. Liposomal glutathione should have a stronger effect if affordable … Or can NAC be increased enough so its effect is more than ‘mild’?]
  • Fiber
  • DMSA, safe drug (250 mg every 3rd night) … [see below]
I personally would avoid DMSA, DMPS, and EDTA, but I don’t suspect that I am off the charts toxic at this point either. If some day I find out that I am, then I'll reconsider. The following notes come from a random website:

1. The side effects of DMSA include diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, appetite loss and rashes. As with other chelating drugs, monitor kidney and liver function.

2. Because of the high doses needed with these [drug] chelators, essential minerals are almost always chelated out of the body as well. Minerals most commonly lost include zinc, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, and selenium, which then need to be replaced.

3. Toxic metals are often stored in the brain, and none of the above-mentioned chelators cross the blood/brain barrier.

4. And last but not least, there has been concern that the metals loosened by the chelating agents are not always properly excreted. Instead, they may be reabsorbed in different parts of the body, causing more damage to the immune system and vital organs.

That last link also mentions using bentonite clay baths, giving an interesting description of them. Get the right kind of bentonite clay that will dissolve well. I wonder if this is comparable to using a sauna for sweating. I explored this idea a bit further online but have ruled it out because I think it could be a problem with my plumbing.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by circular »

NewRon wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:14 pm Maybe add moringa to that list?

https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitne ... a-patrick/
Thanks NewRon. I tried Moringa in the past and it lowered my blood pressure too much. Since I have naturally low-normal blood pressure, I have to avoid some things that others often take to help control high blood pressure. This appeared to be one of them.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
NewRon
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:04 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by NewRon »

Interesting. How much were you taking and what product?
Apo E4/E4, Male, Age 60
circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by circular »

NewRon wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:28 pm Interesting. How much were you taking and what product?
I'm sorry I don't recall, and just to make it more confusing, I'm also now wondering if it was tulsi, rather than moringa, that I had that reaction to. :?:
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
User avatar
floramaria
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 1423
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:22 am
Location: Northern New Mexico

Re: Detox without testing

Post by floramaria »

circular wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:26 pm I like your idea of alternating between NAC and liposomal glutathione, as well as the notion that increasing fiber (even more) could help detox without the constipation caused by some other detox agents. Next I have yet to look into whether high fiber interferes with mineral absorption.

Apparently curcumin has heavy metal chelating effects in addition to its anti-inflammatory role. As of this 2014 article, this still need further study, but I haven't had time to pursue subsequentn research into it:
[*]Increase fiber dramatically. 100-150 gms per day when we evolved. Liver dumps the chemicals and metals into the gut. They need the fiber or the toxins will get reabsorbed.[/list]

Fasting can get mercury out quickly but faster than the body can clear it, which can cause problems in the brain.
[If this is true, it would be better to detox before going on a dietary pattern that involves significant fasting. I wonder if it only applies to mercury for some reason or also to other toxins. My guess it that it applies to other ones as well.]
IV Chelation
You can get worse because it stirs things up before your body can get rid of it.
Safe Mercury Detox
  • You can start this once mercury is at 51 (I think he means if you get it down to 51, to avoid too much being released at once?)
  • Eliminate sources
  • NAC (binds methyl mercury from fish which helps get rid of it through urine, increases glutathione which helps cells get rid of the mercury through the liver). [I have read elsewhere that NAC has a ‘mild’ effect. Liposomal glutathione should have a stronger effect if affordable … Or can NAC be increased enough so its effect is more than ‘mild’?]
  • Fiber
  • DMSA, safe drug (250 mg every 3rd night) … [see below]
I personally would avoid DMSA, DMPS, and EDTA, but I don’t suspect that I am off the charts toxic at this point either.
2. Because of the high doses needed with these [drug] chelators, essential minerals are almost always chelated out of the body as well. Minerals most commonly lost include zinc, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, and selenium, which then need to be replaced.
4. And last but not least, there has been concern that the metals loosened by the chelating agents are not always properly excreted. Instead, they may be reabsorbed in different parts of the body, causing more damage to the immune system and vital organs.
Hi circle,

Thank you for the excellent summary of the Pizzorno detox information and also the other "random" detox notes. That is a great resource. I'll comment on just a few things.
I hadn't heard that turmeric protects against liver damage from heavy metals before. Or that it is an effective chelator. I looked at the article. Interesting.

The danger of reabsorbing toxins or getting toxins circulating faster than they can be eliminated is referred to several times in your notes. That is absolutely something you want to address. Anytime you are mobilizing toxins, whether from fasting or chelation, making sure that the toxins are eliminated rather than reabsorbed is crucial.
While I think increasing fiber is a good idea, 100-150 grams of fiber per day would be a lot! I don't think most detox protocols rely on fiber alone to escort the toxins from the body. Instead, binders are used. For example, Quicksilver protocols for metal detoxification, uses their "Ultra-Binder" product. They call it a "broad spectrum multi toxin binder". It contains bentonite clay, activated charcoal, chitosan, IMD ( a form of silica good for binding mercury according to their literature) plus aloe vera and soluble fiber.
"Responsible detoxification", in my mind, would also include not overwhelming the system with more than it can handle. Many detox protocols ramp up slowly over many months.
My understanding is that some metals, including Mercury, can be bound by glutathione in order to "capture them" to prepare for elimination. Cadmium and lead, though, can't be bound by glutathione which is why chelation with DMSA or EDTA is often recommended for those metals when levels are high. ( I was high in lead and cadmium.).
It is true that chelators will remove other minerals/ nutrient metals from the body. IV and oral chelation protocols I know of alternate mineral supplementation with chelation. But I don't think you have to worry about fiber alone removing things like Zn and Cu and Mg. That's just my guess, though.
I still haven't retested since I finishing Quicksilver Metal Detox w/ EDTA. I'll be able to see nutrient metals as well as levels of toxic metals when I re-test.
Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach
IFM/ Bredesen Training in Reversing Cognitive Decline (March 2017)
ReCODE 2.0 Health Coach with Apollo Health
circular
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am

Re: Detox without testing

Post by circular »

floramaria wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:03 pm I'll comment on just a few things...
Thanks for your additional comments floramaria! I'm still working on this topic overall but haven't found a good chunk of time to focus on it. I'll have a bit more to add when I can get to it.
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
Post Reply