Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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As an alternative to Dr Longo’s FMD, my husband just did a five day FMD with a kit from Dr Q Longevity:
https://www.doctorqfast.com/
He has previously done ProLon FMD 5 times over the last few years.
Dr Q Longevity FMD does not include any grains. It’s bars contain fruit and nuts.
Each day’s food intake includes two large salads. Of course, since this FMD is primarily fresh food, it requires a whole lot of prep time , which most of us are used to, but which is one of the things many people like about Valter Longo’s ProLon program. Dr Q Longevity provides a fruit and nut bar, a small of piece of dark chocolate and a berry drink and 2 bags of herbal tea each day. The daily caloric intake is approx 700 calories. The program includes a fasting food shopping list, which includes olives, nuts, and a wide variety of vegetables that the FMD follower used to make the salad. Because this Approach is whole food based and grain free, it is closer to how I usually eat, except that it only includes the small amount of fat that is in the 3 pistachios per day and 1 walnut half, the approx 1/2 avocado and 5 kalamata olives.
For me it was an interesting approach. For my husband, who was the one doing it as I was a non-fasting bystander,
the pros were: no constipation (a problem for him w/ProLon) , less muscle cramping, fresh vegetables and fruit ( a few strawberries each day ) and inclusion of a home blood collection kit to measure
HsCRP, Hba1c, GGT, and Triglyceride:HDL, good tasting food bars.
The cons: less variety, vastly more work/prep rather than the “just add water” packets of ProLon, Kit is not all inclusive since so much fresh food is part of the plan, so a shopping trip is required.
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Tincup wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:05 pm

From memory, when I looked at some of Longo's FMD studies years ago, his subjects had a beginning Igf-1 of ~195 and were ~150 after. Just following Gundry's normal plan, my Igf-1 is ~120 and my 4/4 wife's is ~80 (from memory),. So we do a lot better on an ongoing basis than Longo's participants do after his FMD. This assumes you buy into the assumption that a low Igf-1 better (certainly that is Longo's position from his work with people with Laron's syndrome {dwarfism} in Ecuador).

My two cents...
Tincup,
I'm reading through this thread again, since I now know much more about Longo and his FMD (per our conversation the other day.) What does the squiggly line in front of the IGF-1 values mean? Mine is 56 (according to labs done this summer through Hyman's Function Health) and I can't figure out what your lines mean. (Dumb question?)

Thanks,
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Jan18 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:39 pm
Tincup wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:05 pm From memory, when I looked at some of Longo's FMD studies years ago, his subjects had a beginning Igf-1 of ~195 and were ~150 after. Just following Gundry's normal plan, my Igf-1 is ~120 and my 4/4 wife's is ~80 (from memory),. So we do a lot better on an ongoing basis than Longo's participants do after his FMD. This assumes you buy into the assumption that a low Igf-1 better (certainly that is Longo's position from his work with people with Laron's syndrome {dwarfism} in Ecuador).
Tincup,
I'm reading through this thread again, since I now know much more about Longo and his FMD (per our conversation the other day.) What does the squiggly line in front of the IGF-1 values mean? Mine is 56 (according to labs done this summer through Hyman's Function Health) and I can't figure out what your lines mean. (Dumb question?)
~ means approximately. Since I was writing my post from memory & I didn't go back and check for exact values.

Though I don't have time to go into detail. IGF-1 isn't necessarily a high is bad, low is good marker, in my understanding. I don't think we want it high all the time but IGF-1 is needed to build muscle, for example. I also think that high insulin is a much bigger driver of chronically high IGF-1 than protein is. I don't know if I already said this (in this thread), but Gundry interviewed carnivore doc, Paul Saladino and he said his IGF-1 was 120 as was that of his carnivore patients. If Longo's average subject had an IGF-1 of 195, protein likely wasn't the big driver. For someone who is losing muscle mass, a bottom of the barrel IGF-1 might be contributing to the problem, in my non-medical opinion.
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Tincup wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:05 pm

~ means approximately. Since I was writing my post from memory & I didn't go back and check for exact values.

Though I don't have time to go into detail. IGF-1 isn't necessarily a high is bad, low is good marker, in my understanding. I don't think we want it high all the time but IGF-1 is needed to build muscle, for example. I also think that high insulin is a much bigger driver of chronically high IGF-1 than protein is. I don't know if I already said this (in this thread), but Gundry interviewed carnivore doc, Paul Saladino and he said his IGF-1 was 120 as was that of his carnivore patients. If Longo's average subject had an IGF-1 of 195, protein likely wasn't the big driver. For someone who is losing muscle mass, a bottom of the barrel IGF-1 might be contributing to the problem, in my non-medical opinion.
Hmmmm....found these: https://www.einsteinmed.edu/research-br ... %20disease

https://www.pathology.med.umich.edu/han ... etails/855

Since high quality protein (and resistance training, of course) raises IGF-1, I'm wondering if the amount of protein on the protocol isn't enough for me at my age (73). My functional medicine doctor in CA insists that older adults need higher protein amounts. I know too much protein can interfere with ketone production, so perhaps that is a variable I should conduct some trial-and-error on myself to see how high I can raise it and still burn ketones?

But then again, could fasting have been causative? https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/1 ... 69/6604640. t

According to the summary of my IGF-1 results from last summer's labs with Mark Hyman's Function Health, fasting increases IGF-1. Here is the summary:

Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1)
In Range
56
ng/mL
Helps detect issues related to growth hormones and aging, such as bone density and muscle mass.

Lab Reference Range
34-245 ng/mL

Above Range

>245

In Range

34-245

Below Range

<34


Why it matters?
Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) is considered the best biomarker for "growth hormone". Growth hormone stimulates cell growth throughout the body and acts as a signaling molecule for thousands of bodily processes.

Growth hormone levels are relatively low at birth, peak during puberty, then start to decline in the second decade of life. As growth hormone declines with age, it can result in a decrease in muscle mass, libido, and energy, and an increase in fat storage.

Traditionally, measuring IGF-1 can show if someone has low growth hormone levels, making it a useful biomarker for overall growth hormone status. However, its importance is evolving into a more comprehensive marker for chronic disease risk. This test can help detect issues related to growth hormone, like muscle metabolism, bone stimulus, and cellular replication—all of which are important for tissue healing. It has also been more broadly involved in longevity medicine, as it is associated with increased disease risk when levels are too low or too high.

The pituitary gland makes growth hormone and triggers the liver to produce IGF-1, which stimulates cell development. This leads to growth, tissue strengthening (such as improving bone density and building muscle), and healing (such as skin, bones, and gut lining), depending on the body's needs.

IGF-1 levels can be influenced by age, gender, nutrition, and overall health. Thyroid hormones also influence growth hormone, so abnormal levels of IGF-1 and thyroid hormones are often correlated.

Even though IGF-1 naturally decreases as you age, it becomes clinically significant when it falls below normal levels.

Summary
You're within range, and a healthy, protein and fiber-filled diet is a good way to keep and/or increase your IGF-1 as you age. Blood sugar balance, exercise, and intermittent fasting can improve production. And as it naturally decreases with age, it can be increased through adrenal support, good sleep, and weight training.

Sources
1. IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1) test. Medlineplus.gov. Accessed April 10, 2023. https://medlineplus.gov/lab-tests/igf-1 ... or-1-test/

2. Snyder PJ. Growth hormone deficiency in adults. UpToDate. Published April 28, 2023. Accessed May 23, 2023. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/growt ... -in-adults
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Jan18 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:32 pm In Range 34-245
When I had an IGF-1 reading of 64, it was on day 7 of a 7 day water fast (and as I've posted, my normal level is around 120, so not excessively high). I personally would not expect muscle growth on day 7 of a water fast. There is some increase in growth hormone associated with extended water fasting.
Since high quality protein (and resistance training, of course) raises IGF-1, I'm wondering if the amount of protein on the protocol isn't enough for me at my age (73). My functional medicine doctor in CA insists that older adults need higher protein amounts. I know too much protein can interfere with ketone production, so perhaps that is a variable I should conduct some trial-and-error on myself to see how high I can raise it and still burn ketones?

But then again, could fasting have been causative? https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/1 ... 69/6604640. t

According to the summary of my IGF-1 results from last summer's labs with Mark Hyman's Function Health, fasting increases IGF-1.


For this experiment, I'd lower fat and increase protein. The ketone production switch is insulin. Carbs and protein both spike insulin acutely with protein having about 54% of the impact of an equivalent amount of carbs. Because of the Randle Cycle, fat increases insulin by increasing insulin resistance. If you are not hypercaloric, I'm guessing you can still make ketones. The idea is to cover all your nutritional bases, including amino acids and micronutrients, at the lowest calorie cost ("nutrient density").

{Edit}, see the second paragraph on protein researcher Don Layman in my post here. I recommend listing to the linked podcast with him.
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Jan18 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:32 pm Since high quality protein (and resistance training, of course) raises IGF-1, I'm wondering if the amount of protein on the protocol isn't enough for me at my age (73).
My Thoughts on Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1)

Your doctor is correct, older folks tend to need more protein, but is it a need for growth or is it a need for essential nutrients that we tend to not absorb as well as we get older? I suspect it’s the latter.

Growth is needed when young, a high IGF-1 is needed if a body builder, but growth isn’t necessarily a good thing as we are older. Even lab levels of IGF-1 are on a sliding scale based on age.

Measuring IGF-1 tells us the extent to which the mTOR pathway is being activated. The mTOR pathway in the body senses energy availability in the body and when it senses plentiful energy, it assumes the body is in a growth cycle and activates IGF-1. When IGF-1 is constantly elevated, this leads to disease. IGF-1 tells cells to grow, all of them, heathy cells and cancer cells. When constantly in a growth pattern, the body doesn’t have a chance to dispose of/recycle old or dysfunctional cells through autophagy. Human and animal studies show lower levels of IGF-1 is correlated with a longer life. Animal protein, along with sugar, elevates Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1). Animal protein in particular contain certain amino acids for growth: methionine, cysteine, and isoleucine.

According to Wikipedia accessed today 23 Nov 2023,
Over-activation of mTOR signaling significantly contributes to the initiation and development of tumors and mTOR activity was found to be deregulated in many types of cancer including breast, prostate, lung, melanoma, bladder, brain, and renal carcinomas.[88] Reasons for constitutive activation are several. …
IGF-1 is a marker for how well a person is aging, people who are aging well in their late 90s/early 100s usually run an Insulin Like Growth Factor around 70. Running a high IGF-1 is Like burning the candle at both ends.

With respect to Alzheimer’s Disease, according to Wikipedia accessed today 23 Nov 2023,
mTOR signaling intersects with Alzheimer's disease (AD) pathology in several aspects, suggesting its potential role as a contributor to disease progression. In general, findings demonstrate mTOR signaling hyperactivity in AD brains. …
IGF-1 can be lowered to a certain extent with calorie restriction and intermittent fasting.
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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TheresaB wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:14 am My Thoughts on Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1)

Your doctor is correct, older folks tend to need more protein, but is it a need for growth or is it a need for essential nutrients that we tend to not absorb as well as we get older? I suspect it’s the latter. So does this mean to increase the animal protein (or keep that to a minimum, as Bredesen's protocol suggests) or up the vegetable protein? Are the essential nutrients you refer to amino acids? Animal protein has been implicated in so many disease risks, I would assume vegetable. Yet the vegetables/legumes/grains that I know of which provide amino acids are rice, beans, quinoa. And on 1200 calories a day to lose a pound a week (given my BMR and activity level requirements minus 500 calories) that doesn't leave much carb room for other vegetables, not to mention the spike of the rice.

Growth is needed when young, a high IGF-1 is needed if a body builder, but growth isn’t necessarily a good thing as we are older. Even lab levels of IGF-1 are on a sliding scale based on age. The scale I referenced in my text had 70+ at 34-150, if my recall is correct. I'm 56. BUT I HAVE been using calorie restriction with intermittent fasting, per Jason Fung to lose weight (which isn't going very well and now we've uncovered several possible reasons we are addressing.) Could that account for my lab? I'm a bit concerned, given that you say 90's/100's are usually around 70.

IGF-1 is a marker for how well a person is aging, people who are aging well in their late 90s/early 100s usually run an Insulin Like Growth Factor around 70. Running a high IGF-1 is Like burning the candle at both ends.

IGF-1 can be lowered to a certain extent with calorie restriction and intermittent fasting.
Thank you for explaining this in layman's terms!

As the summary on my Function Health labs suggests -- You're within range, and a healthy, protein and fiber-filled diet is a good way to keep and/or increase your IGF-1 as you age. Blood sugar balance, exercise, and intermittent fasting can improve production. And as it naturally decreases with age, it can be increased through adrenal support, good sleep, and weight training. -- this is what I am focusing on while my goal to lose excess weight remains.

I don't know how accurate something like this can be, but the summary gives you an assessment of "real age" and mine was 59.7 (or 13.7 years younger.) I'll take it ;) but still wondering how they really arrived at that. :o
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Jan18 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:13 pm So does this mean to increase the animal protein (or keep that to a minimum, as Bredesen's protocol suggests) or up the vegetable protein?


Yes, I would up the vegetable protein. Hemp hearts are a good source, easy to sprinkle on your salad.
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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Tincup wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:27 am

For this experiment, I'd lower fat and increase protein. The ketone production switch is insulin. Carbs and protein both spike insulin acutely with protein having about 54% of the impact of an equivalent amount of carbs. Because of the Randle Cycle, fat increases insulin by increasing insulin resistance. If you are not hypercaloric, I'm guessing you can still make ketones. The idea is to cover all your nutritional bases, including amino acids and micronutrients, at the lowest calorie cost ("nutrient density").

{Edit}, see the second paragraph on protein researcher Don Layman in my post here. I recommend listing to the linked podcast with him.
Thanks, Tincup! I'll read Layman and keep your information in mind!
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Re: Gauging Interest in a Trial with Valter Longo, PhD

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[
Jan18 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:13 pm So does this mean to increase the animal protein (or keep that to a minimum, as Bredesen's protocol suggests) or up the vegetable protein?
Saw this article today and thought of you:

Cutting Back on One Amino Acid Increases Lifespan of Middle-Aged Mice Up to 33%
A new study in mice found limited intakes of one particular essential amino acid slowed the impacts of ageing and even lengthened their lifespan.
Scientists are now wondering if these findings could help people improve their longevity and quality of life.
Isoleucine is one of three branched-chain amino acids we use to build proteins in our bodies. It is essential for our survival, but since our cells can't produce it from scratch, we have to get it from sources like eggs, dairy, soy protein and meats.
it goes on
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