MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Jan18
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Theresa B,
Thanks for this info. about Apoe4's and LDL. I finally acquiesced to my internal medicine doctor about my high LDL and total cholesterol and started the statin, Crestor in January, which lowered my LDL and total to 151 and 201. Now I am worried that I shouldn't be on it. Even though both were high, Cleveland Clinic Heart Labs looked at a myriad of factors in my labs and said my risk of heart problems was only "moderate". I realize "low" would be ideal.

What scared me was that my internist pointed out that high LDL in itself, even absent other factors, was a risk for a heart attack.

What are your thoughts on that?
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Jan18 wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:46 pm Theresa B,
Thanks for this info. about Apoe4's and LDL. I finally acquiesced to my internal medicine doctor about my high LDL and total cholesterol and started the statin, Crestor in January, which lowered my LDL and total to 151 and 201. Now I am worried that I shouldn't be on it. Even though both were high, Cleveland Clinic Heart Labs looked at a myriad of factors in my labs and said my risk of heart problems was only "moderate". I realize "low" would be ideal.

What scared me was that my internist pointed out that high LDL in itself, even absent other factors, was a risk for a heart attack.

What are your thoughts on that?
I am not a fan of statins. There is a place for them, but not nearly on the scale that they are prescribed. If a doctor only looks at Total Cholesterol or LDL and by that measure alone prescribes a statin, I would run away.

My doctor has never discussed my Total Cholesterol or LDL level. Those levels are included in the set of tests he takes, they’re always high/in the red level, but we ignore the numbers, and address more relevant biomarkers.

We address my cardiovascular risk through other biomarkers: HbA1c, HDL to Triglyceride ratio, oxidized LDL, LDL Pattern, Apo B to Apo A 1 ratio, Lp(a), PULS test https://www.pulstest.com/patients which is an aggregation of various biomarkers, and probably some other tests too. Plus I’ve had a couple CAC scans to obtain for a calcium score and for plaque progression.

Statins do lower LDL, but do they lower the risk for cardiovascular disease? I don’t think they do. Statins have been referred to as mitochondrial poison. Mitochondria exist in all the body's cells except red blood cells and maybe there too. Mitochondria create energy for our cells, thus our entire body. They make up 10% to 20% of the body by weight and are working 24/7. Neurons especially require massive amounts of energy to function properly, therefore they need good healthy, properly functioning mitochondria. Degraded mitochondria is a hallmark of Alzheimer’s. Many things can contribute to degraded mitochondria therefore a statin in insolation doesn’t cause dementia/Alzheimer's, but given the many other mitochondrial degraders we are so often exposed I question their use especially for ApoE4s.
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Hi Jan18!
My own experience with statins is that it affects the muscles in your legs! A few friends and myself had this reaction directly related to starting statins. I am experimenting with Red Yeast Rice to lower my cholesterol, although too soon to test ( PubMed . )
Below are links to wiki discussions from the wiki about cholesterol. Stacia re-affirms the daily intake limit of 7% of calories.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418&start=10#p15813

Take Care,
AnnaM
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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TheresaB wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:42 am

We address my cardiovascular risk through other biomarkers: HbA1c, HDL to Triglyceride ratio, oxidized LDL, LDL Pattern, Apo B to Apo A 1 ratio, Lp(a), PULS test https://www.pulstest.com/patients which is an aggregation of various biomarkers, and probably some other tests too. Plus I’ve had a couple CAC scans to obtain for a calcium score and for plaque progression.
Hi Theresa,
Last May (because my former functional medicine doctor doesn't run the same tests each time to compare, so I don't have some of these labs any more recently than that) these labs were what I had:

ApoB-ApoA ratio = 0.82
ApoA1 = 159
ApoB = 130

HbA1c = 5.0

Glucose 74
Insulin 4.5
Homocysteine = 6.6

Cholesterol = 250
HDL = 61
LDL cholesterol (calculated) = 173
Triglycerides = 68
Cholesterol/HDL-C = 41
Non-HDL cholesterol = 189
Oxidized cholesterol = 60
LDL-P = 2080
and seven other results about HDL and LDL sizes, numbers, etc.

I don't know what LP(a) is or the PULS test (which I've now read about) or what LDL pattern is unless that is how you refer to the size of the particles.

I've had two CAC scans, both zero.

My problem with my former (I left her) functional medicine doctor was that she never ran all the same tests, many which were high. But I wanted to know if they'd improved! I don't know if this is an insurance (Medicare with supplement) issue or why she does that. I've tried to talk to her about it and her response was something about "hard to please everyone with labs, because some complain that not enough were done and some complain that too many were done"! (Excuse me, but WTF?! Why doesn't she just ask what we are looking for?)

I just want the same thing run each time so I can keep track if they are bad, good, improving, stable, whatever.

I'm so worried now about being on Crestor if I don't need to be!!! (Prescribed by my internist...) I'm also seeing my heart doctor the end of the month to go over stuff with him and to see if I need to be on this Crestor ("my" heart doctor -- saw him just twice, about 6 years ago, once because of my cholesterol numbers and once for him to tell me he wouldn't advise anything other than diet and exercise due to my zero CAC score and good treadmill and EKG results, so it's not like I "have" a heart doctor).

I hope Apollo does that. I'm calling them now. I just want the right labs for our Apoe4 factor done!
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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AnnaM wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:02 pm Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info! That does sound good! I’m working on getting my cholesterol down now. But I like the idea of jump-starting in the morning. Maybe a spoonful of olive oil?
Thanks,
AnnaM
As Theresa mentioned, neither Cream nor olive oil are the same as MCTs, which bypass the liver and go straight to the blood. However IMHO, if you have fat in the morning, that will be the first thing that the liver works on and it will quickly get to the blood. In some ways, the fact that MCTs go directly to the blood, regardless of fuel needs, could be problematic. And the argument about animal vs plant food source has gone on quite a bit on this forum. I base my decision on the fact that for the last million years or so, early man were mostly meat eaters. Brain grew larger and gut smaller, which is a sign of moving towards carnivore.
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by Jan18 »

AnnaM wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:53 am Stacia re-affirms the daily intake limit of 7% of calories.

https://wiki.apoe4.info/wiki/Main_Page# ... heimer.27s

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1418&start=10#p15813

Take Care,
AnnaM
Thanks, Anna. I've read all of the Wiki stuff several times. What I am not sure you are referencing is 7% of calories. Daily intake of what? The link you sent me ended up on topics not mentioning anything about 7% of calories for anything.

Thanks,
Barbara
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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mike wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:38 pm I don't remember exactly, but I think there was a study where MCT did not help ApoE4s as much compared to E2 and E3s. If you are in ketosis, and brain function is good, then there is no reason to use MCT, except maybe as Theresa said to jump start your day in the right direction. I personally eat dairy, and have Full cream in my coffee to do that.
Hi Mike,
Not sure how this topic kind of veered off on MCT, as my original question was if anyone knew why Bredesen has an endorsement on these MOSH bars which have some MCT oil in them. I know he only recommends using MCT short term to get into ketosis if one is having problems achieving it, so I was confused about his endorsement.

I am measuring .7 to 1.1 regularly now and when I was just beginning the program, wasn't interested in using MCT even short term. I had researched it and came to the conclusion I was staying away from it.

So that is why I was confused to see Bredesen endorsing a "brain bar" (see my link to the bar in previous post) that had it! It also has lion's mane and ashwaganhdha, which I think he'd endorse, so maybe he focused on that and the "clean" ingredients?


Barbara
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Jan18 wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:50 pm I am measuring .7 to 1.1 regularly now and when I was just beginning the program, wasn't interested in using MCT even short term. I had researched it and came to the conclusion I was staying away from it.
Barbara, I've no idea why he is endorsing it, unless maybe as something to help you get into ketosis. It might also be useful for someone with brain problems who can not get into ketosis and wants some extra fuel? Or maybe he just doesn't think MCTs are bad for you and the rest of the bar is worth it?
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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HI Barbara,
Yes it was 7% of total daily calories can be saturated fats, a bit lower than the 10% recommendations I've seen in other places. This is in the Primer, under the title RE: An introduction to Apoe4, biochemistry and possible prevention Strategies. Then, the 6th "RE: there is eating a healthy diet with heaps of micronutrients", is where the Lipids discussion is. (around the ninth RE). At the bottom there is her updated info, starting with "2017 - I am fully aware...". My directions are as confusing as the lipids! The other two links just have smaller inputs to the discussion, in the weeds!

Here it is Stavia's quote:
2017: I am fully aware that this particular facet is controversial, and I am stating my interpretation of the evidence, which resonates with many top Alzheimer's clinician's opinions and that of many of our members. I am not promoting a high saturated fat diet, and our forum is not promoting a high saturated fat diet either. Mainstream recommendations are to limit saturated fat to 7% or less of calories and I see no compelling evidence that is contrary to this. I am fully aware that there are those who believe that high saturated fat is benign. In the absence of compelling evidence to support this, ie reduced risk of AD and CVD with high saturated fat (not surrogate markers such as a LDL level, I want to see numbers of actual dementia and actual heart attacks, and with clear causation, not correlation), I chose to limit my saturated fat and so do many on the forum. However, others disagree.
Thanks,
AnnM
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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AnnaM wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:04 pm My directions are as confusing as the lipids! The other two links just have smaller inputs to the discussion, in the weeds!
LOL! Thanks for the explanation, Anna!
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