MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Jan18
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MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by Jan18 »

Hi all, I just saw Maria Shriver advertising a brain-healthy protein bar called MOSH. It has MCT oil. Darn, I thought I'd try them, but MCT oil is a no-no for us apoe4's, right?

But on her site Dr. Bredesen is endorsing them!

What do you all make of Bredesen endorsing this product?

Thanks!
Last edited by Jan18 on Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Jan18 wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:07 pm Hi all, I just saw Maria Shriver advertising a brain-healthy protein bar called MOSH. It has MCT oil. Darn, I thought I'd try them, but MCT oil is a no-no for us apoe4's, right?

But on her site Dr. Bredesen is endorsing them!

What do you all make of/know about this?
I am completely unfamiliar with MOSH bars, so I can’t address them. Sounds like processed food to me, which I try to avoid. I do know a little about MCT oil. It is not entirely verboten for ApoE4s, but its limitations should be known.

My first question would be what do you expect to accomplish with the MCT oil? That may answer whether to consume it or not. Some use it to help their cognition. Dr Bredesen has recommended its use as a facilitator to entering a keto adapted state so that the body makes its own ketones. I place a tablespoon of quality C-8 oil in my morning coffee, while still in a fasted state to give my body an extra “kick” of ketones to act as a signaling molecule to strengthen my mitochondria (it does nothing for my cognition).

Whatever your reason for wanting to consume MCT oil, recognize that not all MCT oil is alike. C-8 oil is the the best from a cognition and lipid standpoint. But the oils are often made from an industrialized process, chemically refined using solvents. Some research is well spent. The MCT oil should be a quality oil, tested for purity, heavy metals and microbials.

MCT oil goes to the liver where it is converted into ketones, which is then released into the bloodstream and transported throughout the body to be used as fuel. But if the body is already full of fuel in the form of glucose, does the body even use the ketones or is the MCT oil providing expensive urine? Certainly, a state of high glucose and high ketones is an unnatural state for the body.

The effects of MCT oil on cognition is temporary and doesn’t address the root cause of the cognition impairment.

Not everyone should consume MCT oil, especially a person with liver issues.

There’s a more detailed discussion in our wiki: Coconut Oil, MCT oil, and other Ketone/Cognition Boosters (salts, esters)
-Theresa
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by Jan18 »

Hi Theresa,
Thanks for the fast and detailed response.

My answer is simple: I don't want the MCT oil at all! :) That's why I was wondering (a) why Bredesen endorses these and (b) is the amount of MCT oil in them not a concern then?

They look pretty nutritious and a good alternative to "sweets", since we can't have those, added with protein. I know most protein bars are not really good, full of sugar, processed, etc. And truthfully, I've never eaten them, because after biting into a couple, they tasted like cardboard anyway. But these are just coming on the market and since Dr. B endorsed them, I was curious about the MCT in them being bad for us.

These MOSH bars have lion's mane and ashwagandha, less than 1 g sugar, grass fed whey, and are keto-friendly, gluten-free, GMO free and are adaptogen boosted (whatever that means.). They are billed as being "brain boosters".
Here's the link: https://moshlife.com/

Bredesen endorsement on site: "Nutrition has taken center stage in brain health, & MOSH bars help to provide optimal brain nutrition."
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

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Hi Jan18!
What I have heard on Dr. Bredesen's Town Halls (over one year ago) is he said it may be okay to use MCT oils for a short time while getting into ketosis, but then don't rely on them. I searched through the Town Halls and only found one with nutritionist Carolina Curlionis on 7/31/19 where they discuss MCT oil. The gist is to wean off of the MCT oils and transition more into MUFAs and PUFAs (Mono- and Polyunsaturated fats). A quick search online can provide lists of healthy selections of both of these. That discussion was three years ago, and as Apoe4 gene is the most ancient and described as "dropping cholesterol all over the place" in a recent discussion one this site, I stay away from it in my diet. The body can make whatever cholesterol that is needed (https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-he ... -your-body).
I agree with TheresaB and try to stay away from all processed foods.
Enjoy the day!
AnnaM
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by Jan18 »

Hi Anna,
Thanks for weighing in.

I've read about MCT, having been with this group since 2017 and having had Bredesen's books since then, too. When I have my nutritional, metabolic, heart labs, done by my functional medicine doctor (very extensive) everything now is in range and my Omega3:6 ratio excellent. She said she rarely sees anyone with such a good ratio. Thanks to Bredesen's cognoscopy and my changing my diet extensively. I'm measuring .7 - .9 ketones (he says to be in "mild ketosis" .5-1.5 if I recall correctly) so I'm not interested in MCT oil to get into ketosis. I don't need or want MCT oil. And I don't eat processed foods. My friends always wonder why I have nothing but herbs, spices, fresh garlic, coffee, tea, good oils, vinegar, stuff like canned artichokes, salmon and tuna, capers, Primal Avocado mayonnaise, almond butter, etc. in my pantry! :lol:

Maybe I should be contacting Dr. Bresesen directly to ask why he endorsed a product with MCT oil in it. I just thought someone here would know why and then I wouldn't have to bother him.

But could you take a look at the site at www.moshlife.com to see the products and Bredesen's endorsements? And then does your opinion change? That's what I'm looking for. :)
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by AnnaM »

Hi Jan18,
Yes, do contact him. I'll be curious too. The website looks great, with lots of good additions. I also have MTHFR so can only deal with methylated B's and my cholesterol is a bit high, so I stay away from any oil that could potentially be saturated. Your numbers look great and because you are a senior contributor, you know your stuff! Good luck with the bars, I'm sure they will be a hit.
Best,
AnnaM
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by mike »

I don't remember exactly, but I think there was a study where MCT did not help ApoE4s as much compared to E2 and E3s. If you are in ketosis, and brain function is good, then there is no reason to use MCT, except maybe as Theresa said to jump start your day in the right direction. I personally eat dairy, and have Full cream in my coffee to do that.
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by AnnaM »

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info! That does sound good! I’m working on getting my cholesterol down now. But I like the idea of jump-starting in the morning. Maybe a spoonful of olive oil?
Thanks,
AnnaM
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by TheresaB »

AnnaM wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:02 pm Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info! That does sound good! I’m working on getting my cholesterol down now. But I like the idea of jump-starting in the morning. Maybe a spoonful of olive oil?
Thanks,
AnnaM
Long chain triglycerides are broken down in the small intestine. Medium-chain triglycerides (MCTs) bypass that process by directly penetrating the small intestine then going to the liver where they are quickly converted into ketones. A spoonful of olive oil has no medium chain triglycerides, rather long chain triglycerides.

Same with adding dairy or full cream to one's coffee. Plus dairy has the additional complication of being inflammatory, something us 4s need to avoid with our pro-inflammatory predisposition. Dr Bredesen recommends everyone (not just 4s) avoid diary. Most people are (unknowingly) sensitive to diary, either the sugar (lactose) or the protein (A-1 casein). Dairy can also raise homocysteine and IGF-1. If you must add some dairy to your coffee, you would probably best to use goat milk or sheep milk, both have the less inflammatory A-2 casein protein and contain MCTs.

You say you need to keep your cholesterol down. What do you mean? Your LDL? All 4s have higher LDL levels.
As Dr Goodenowe explained (from ApoE4.info Podcast: Dayan Goodenowe, PhD: Plasmalogens & Neurological Health (Part 2) shownotes:
The reason why APOEε4 carriers have higher levels of LDL cholesterol is that they’re cholesterol conservers, which means your cholesterol efflux is lower. Imagine your house has solar panels on an electrical grid. The electrical grid from the power company is the circulating LDL. The electrical grid in your house powered by the solar panels, that’s your individual cell. If you’re a APOEε4 carrier, you’re very energy efficient, you don’t require much energy from the power company, so you absorb less, you conserve cholesterol. Since you conserve cholesterol, you don’t require as much from the blood supply, so LDL levels will elevate because the cellular demand of cholesterol is less in an ε4 carrier than in an ε3 carrier. ε2 carriers are the opposite, they efflux cholesterol, they can’t hold their cholesterol, they’re always absorbing cholesterol from the blood supply which makes their LDL levels low. ε4 carriers have low cholesterol efflux, they hold their cholesterol better.
He also said:
The LDL in your blood makes no difference, there’s nothing wrong with that, in fact it’s a measure of health. The worse thing is to have low cholesterol because it shows your cells are unhealthy. If your cells are unhealthy, they need cholesterol and they suck cholesterol from the blood supply, or your liver is not making enough cholesterol.
Dave Feldman, citizen scientist and founder of Cholesterol Code has, for years, offered a bounty for every study (non-drug/non-gene) showing that high LDL means high chance of cardiovascular disease when triglycerides are low and HDL is high. To my knowledge he hasn't paid his bounty out even once.

Also, don't forget what our primer says, "GLYCAEMIC CONTROL TRUMPS LIPIDS, EVERY TIME"

I'm not saying ignore cholesterol biomarkers, I'm saying LDL alone (and total cholesterol) offer very little of value.
-Theresa
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Re: MOSH bars & Bredesen's endorsement

Post by AnnaM »

All good information that I have not seen before. It is true that we make needed cholesterol from MUFAs and PUFAs What would you say is a correct level of LDL in e4s?
Thanks for the reply!
Best,
AnnaM
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