Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Alzheimer's, cardiovascular, and other chronic diseases; biomarkers, lifestyle, supplements, drugs, and health care.
User avatar
Jan18
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Jan18 »

Can someone please direct me to the updated Keto Plant Paradox "Yes Please" and "Just Say No" lists of food for us Apoe4's?

I don't see them in the Wiki section (unless I missed them) and in going through my old lists, I see coconut oil and MCT oil on the "Yes" list, as well as a host of animal proteins that he now seems to be saying "no" to....the last video presentation I watched of his appears to be saying no cheese at all, no grass-fed beef, no pastured poultry or most anything at all EXCEPT shellfish! And here I thought salmon was such a good choice. And what do you eat if you are allergic to shellfish?!

I see a lot of choices on the "Yes" list that I recall being told we Apoe4's shouldn't have.

I have so many questions about food (just when I thought I was getting the hang of this). For instance, he has said green bananas are okay but who in their right mind is going to peel and eat a hard, green unripe banana? Has anyone found any type of recipe that uses green bananas? If not, why even say green bananas are okay? That's just one minor question I have.

Does he still say 1 oz. of the cheeses he lists on the "Yes Please" list of foods? It appears he is now saying ZERO cheese. ZERO dairy.

Or -- maybe this is key? -- since the individual approach is part of this, do we all just find out how much of the "No"
foods we can tolerate and still produce acceptable test scores for everything? Or simply, is there an Apoe4 version of his Keto Plant Paradox "Yes" and "No" lists? Those are the only ones I have.

He also cited a study in a 2016 video I just watched whose control group got a liter of olive oil a week! That's 67 T or 7,973 calories. He said he and his wife got about a liter and a half a week between them or 101 T./ 12,019 calories. Since I have weight to lose, I am limited to about 1300 calories a day. So 3/4 liter (going by his personal consumption) is 858 of my calories have to be in olive oil. Come on.

How do you keep up with all of this without (1) spending hours every day reading/watching and (2) getting frustrated/depressed? (Yeah, I know....I usually just post when I AM frustrated or depressed about adopting the protocol. But you guys are the only ones I can talk to about this. None of my doctors know anything about it and look at me with "poor lady....another one off on a quack protocol" expressions -- some even say "show me the data" when I try to explain the protocol.) :( :x :?
NF52
Support Team
Support Team
Posts: 2772
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:41 am
Location: Eastern U.S.

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by NF52 »

Jan18 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:01 pm Can someone please direct me to the updated Keto Plant Paradox "Yes Please" and "Just Say No" lists of food for us Apoe4's?...

How do you keep up with all of this without (1) spending hours every day reading/watching and (2) getting frustrated/depressed? (Yeah, I know....I usually just post when I AM frustrated or depressed about adopting the protocol. But you guys are the only ones I can talk to about this. None of my doctors know anything about it and look at me with "poor lady....another one off on a quack protocol" expressions -- some even say "show me the data" when I try to explain the protocol.) :( :x :?
Hi Jan18,

I'll let Tincup or Theresa B, who are patients of Dr. Gundry, answer your Gundry questions. But I will venture a different answer to an unasked question or two:

First, when you say you have weight to lose, is that so you can get to your "ideal weight" or a certain BMI or you have a specific number in mind that your doctor has suggested? I'm not suggesting that you not lose weight, but I also know that some studies suggest that ONLY for post-menopausal women with ApoE 4 (and maybe especially 4/4), being overweight (not obese or diabetic) is associated with LESS cognitive decline over several years' time.

Here's an excerpt from the Abstract of a 2021 article using people who had a family history of AD and volunteered to be followed for five years or more in several different US academic centers:
Five-Year Change in Body Mass Index Predicts Conversion to Mild Cognitive Impairment or Dementia Only in APOE ɛ4 Allele Carriers
The aim of this study was to investigate the interaction between APOE ɛ4 status and baseline (bBMI) and five-year BMI change on conversion to MCI or dementia in ...1,289 cognitively healthy elders from the National Alzheimer’s Coordinating Center (NACC) database. Results: After five years, significantly ApoE 4 more carriers (30.6%) converted to MCI or dementia than noncarriers (17.6%), p < 0.001, OR = 2.06. Neither bBMI [baseline BMI](OR = 0.99, 95%CI = 0.96–1.02) nor the bBMI by APOE interaction (OR = 1.02, 95%CI = 0.96–1.08) predicted conversion.

For [ApoE4] carriers only, each one-unit decline in BMI over five years was associated with a 27% increase in the odds of conversion ...Interventions and behaviors aimed at maintaining body mass may be important for long term cognitive health in older adults at genetic risk for AD.
Hypotheses around why seem to focus on the possibility that ApoE 4 women are especially vulnerable to the loss of estrogen at menopause and so move earlier and steeper in hypometabilosm of glucose, with some adipose tissue being helpful for the brain as fuel. I know that's controversial, but it's still hard to explain why being weight and dementia seems to show a U-shaped curve of risk association. Given the strong association between exercise and cardiac fitness and brain health, it may be easier for some of us (hand raised) to have good blood pressure, heart rate and exercise endurance than the BMI we dream of .

A source I have used to avoid having to spend hours each day reading about food is this 2021 article. Precision Nutrition for Alzheimer's Prevention in ApoE4 Carriers One of the co-authors is Dr. Richard Isaacson, who until very recently was head of the Alzheimer's Prevention Center at Cornell Weill Medical Center in NYC (He's moved to a position in Florida.)

I appreciate that the authors explain why they make recommendations and where they think the evidence is strongest. Since I know other 4/4 women who eat everything they like in large quantities and have never had to think about losing weight, I assume we're not all identical in our dietary needs! I have met enough functional medicine health coaches to know they can be a great support in making progress towards goals without having to run through burning coals--or hours of articles!
4/4 and still an optimist!
User avatar
Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Tincup »

Jan18 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:01 pm Can someone please direct me to the updated Keto Plant Paradox "Yes Please" and "Just Say No" lists of food for us Apoe4's?
I think the most recent one I posted was from 2017 here.

In 2020, I posted a list here that we'd gotten from another Gundry patient with her notes for ApoE4. I don't think it was the keto list, but you could compare with the keto list from my first link.

In this post from a consult we had in January 2021, he encouraged my 4/4 wife to consume some goat cheese and some C-8 caprylic acid MCT daily (transcript is linked in the post). This is detailed more in his most recent book, Unlocking the Keto Code. This has his most recent food list (which I don't have a separate copy of). For land animals, other than poultry, he's concerned about the Neu5Gc carbohydrate that is found in these meats. Humans have a different form of this and he says there are data that this can cause issues. A Pubmed search brings up 52 hits.

For E4's, he's generally concerned about consuming high levels of saturated fat. I recall early on, he suggested to us to favor white fish and shellfish. He told us pastured or omega 3 eggs are OK, but we both react to them. I react to all dairy, again on sensitivity testing. On pastured poultry, he's fine with this if it is truly pastured and not supplemented with corn & soy. Have one friend who is very sensitive and she was reacting to pastured poultry. When she pressed this issue with the farmer, she found he did supplement their food with corn & soy.

For weight loss, I also recommend Marty Kendall's work on hunger training as well as trying to get all nutrients from food while minimizing calories. Scroll down to his name in this post and read on for more info & links.
Tincup
E3,E4
User avatar
TheresaB
Mod
Mod
Posts: 1607
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by TheresaB »

Jan18 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 4:01 pm Can someone please direct me to the updated Keto Plant Paradox "Yes Please" and "Just Say No" lists of food for us Apoe4's?
As Dr Gundry says in his book:
As always, you can find this information online at DrGundry.com, where you can download the lists in PDF form.
Gundry, Dr. Steven R . Unlocking the Keto Code (The Plant Paradox) (p. 135). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

Here is that ink:
https://drgundry.com/dr-gundrys-print-f ... -no-lists/

There is no separate list for ApoE4s. Tincup has offered some good advice there, as does the wiki, and things Dr Gundry has written in his books that apply to ApoE4. I use that along with my experience/test results for food sensitivities and cross off certain foods from those lists to meet my individual needs.
-Theresa
ApoE 4/4
User avatar
Jan18
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Jan18 »

Tincup wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 5:14 am
I react to all dairy, again on sensitivity testing.
Thank you for the detailed help, Tincup. You are among several here that I can always count on for detailed information and words cannot convey my gratitude.

Regarding above, when you say "sensitivity testing" do you mean reactions to cronometer readings or actual skin-prick testing done by a medical professional? I'm considering having the latter done and wondering if it is worth the cost.

I am reading through all of the links you have provided me. Is Gundry taking new patients? Again, thank you so much!
User avatar
Jan18
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Jan18 »

TheresaB wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 7:24 am
There is no separate list for ApoE4s. Tincup has offered some good advice there, as does the wiki, and things Dr Gundry has written in his books that apply to ApoE4. I use that along with my experience/test results for food sensitivities and cross off certain foods from those lists to meet my individual needs.
As always, thank you, TheresaB. You, too, are a valued source of information and I appreciate the generosity of your time in responding.

Will make use of your suggestions. :)
User avatar
Jan18
Senior Contributor
Senior Contributor
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:41 pm

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Jan18 »

NF52 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 6:34 pm
First, when you say you have weight to lose, is that so you can get to your "ideal weight" or a certain BMI or you have a specific number in mind that your doctor has suggested? I'm not suggesting that you not lose weight, but I also know that some studies suggest that ONLY for post-menopausal women with ApoE 4 (and maybe especially 4/4), being overweight (not obese or diabetic) is associated with LESS cognitive decline over several years' time.
Hi NF52,
Thank you for the response and wealth of information, with which I am spending time becoming acquainted. I'd not heard of some of the studies you present and am curious.

To answer this question, however, my losing weight is to achieve a healthier BMI and supported by my physicians.

I signed up for ReCode with Apollo Health lately (am doing blood work this week) only because I want to get the most testing possible. When I completed their free assessment online, they only recommended PreCode, but I wanted to be as aggressive as possible.

I am learning through Apollo's site more than the books have previously informed us about the protocol with new findings as they are discovered. I am working my way through all of the past town halls and taking notes. This forum, Apoe4info.com, has proven very valuable, too, so I am grateful for both.

Thanks again!
User avatar
Tincup
Mod
Mod
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Tincup »

Jan18 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:11 am Regarding above, when you say "sensitivity testing" do you mean reactions to cronometer readings or actual skin-prick testing done by a medical professional? I'm considering having the latter done and wondering if it is worth the cost.

I am reading through all of the links you have provided me. Is Gundry taking new patients? Again, thank you so much!
It was a Vibrant (lab) Zoomer blood draw test. The results for T are in this post (as PDF upload). and mine are in the following post. I think the cost was around $600, not covered by insurance.

The policy at Gundry's office is your first appointment is with his PA and for established patients, every other appointment is with the PA (no difference in cost, at least for phone consult). Someone here recently was able to start the process of being a new patient.

My autoimmune issues (chronic rhinitis from birth) improved probably 80% just following Gundry's generic plan. Then several years ago, I found Dr. Coca's 1956 book on pulse testing for food sensitivity. Basically you test your pulse before you eat and 30/60/90 minutes after. I found a 60 second manual test with my fingers on my radial pulse gave better results than an instantaneous electronic device (of which I have many). Coca said if your pulse was elevated 6 BPM or more you were sensitive to something in what you ate. If it is a mixed meal, then you have to go back at another time and eat things separately to figure out what is causing the elevation. In my case, I found some foods that were causing non-subtle increases (15-20-25 BPM). When I first got an Oura (tracking) ring, it said I had 0-3 minutes of deep sleep a night. I couldn't figure out how to improve that! Then I tried Coca's approach and eliminated the obvious offenders. Before Coca's approach, one night my pulse averaged 63 BPM overnight. Not bad as I was about 63 years old. Two much later, after removing foods, my pulse averaged 45 & I had not changed exercise at all! In addition, my deep sleep ranged from 30-90 minutes, depending on the night. Obviously a huge change for the better.

Looking back in my data, the Coca test picked up my egg & avocado sensitivity, but I ignored it :lol: I wasn't eating any dairy, so that sensitivity wasn't tested.
Tincup
E3,E4
GadgetDiva
New User
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:48 pm

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by GadgetDiva »

Re Sharon Leone's high polyphenol EVOO availability...We got our order delivered to FL May 8 roughly. Chitui from Tunisia November 2021 harvest is rated at 969. Not as high as last year but great nevertheless!
Attabeth
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:27 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: Apoe4 Gundry List of Foods

Post by Attabeth »

GadgetDiva wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:41 pm Re Sharon Leone's high polyphenol EVOO availability...We got our order delivered to FL May 8 roughly. Chitui from Tunisia November 2021 harvest is rated at 969. Not as high as last year but great nevertheless!
Hi GadgetDiva,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Sharon Leone's EVOO. I have been looking for a good source and appreciate the info.

I also wanted to welcome you to the forum. It looks like you have been a member for some time but as a welcome intern I would like to share some links with you in case you haven't had much time to explore the sight. The Primer includes researched-based prevention strategies.

Some helpful tips and tricks to navigate the site include the How-to Guide. This guide is a great resource I found helpful when I started posting. It includes topics such as navigating the forum, private messaging, and searching. One great tip is using the quote (") button when replying to a post. Using the button will automatically alert the member of your response. It really helps to keep the conversation going.

If you would like to tell us more about yourself or interested in learning more about other members check out Our Stories. I hope to hear from you again and please feel free to share more about yourself and your story. So glad you are here.

Be well,
Beth
Post Reply