Still so worried about sleep

[Chrisweides]

Hello fellow prevention oriented people,

I am still sleeping so badly. More than half a year now that I wake up after 4-5 hours of sleep, very tense and anxious, and cannot fall asleep again for sometime and often not at all. I think this is also hormonal since I am 50 and probably in perimenopause. I am already on HRT, but it seems to be hard and a long process to find the correct dose of hormones - most doctors don’t want to measure them at all and go for the “there are 2-3 different dosages and you can try them and see what works best“. I found one now who is going to measure my hormones but it takes a while - has to be repeated every few weeks and I have to wait until certain points in my cycle (or, in my case, in my cyclical HRT).

Meanwhile I go on struggling with bad sleep, anxiety and occasionally depression. And I am so, so worried - even though worry will make things worse, I know, but it is impossible to „just not worry“ - about this bad sleep pattern.

Will I be doomed to get Alzheimers like my foremothers no matter what other prevention measures I take if I continue to sleep so badly? It just seems to be so I can’t sleep more than 4-5 hours no matter what I do. And since I am tired during the day, it is obviously not enough. Sometimes I will fall asleep again after a while, sometimes not.

I keep reading that sleep is so important and I believe it, but there is nothing I can do. I am trying to find the correct HRT, I am exercising 30 mins a day and try to be active outside of that as well. I measured my vitamins and everything is withing the parameters approved here. I am taking B12 and magnesium. I have tried numerous antidepressants but somehow they aren’t working to well for me and the more calming tricyclics are highly anticholinergic, something I don’t want to risk for the years I may need them. Same with sleeping pills - besides, even with sleeping medication I can’t sleep through the night and only will wake up tired and fuzzy as well as anxious and tense. Which is not an improvement. In my despair, I even tried unhealthy stuff like Benadryl, but even that didn’t work. 4-5 hours it is. Every night, around 2 am, my body will wake me up. I don’t want to take heavy antihistamines more than once or twice - they are very unhealthy for the brain and it takes days (as I now noticed) until I can think properly again.

From what I read, melatonin may be helpful. The only relatively clean melatonin I have access to also has passion flower, which I am a bit apprehensive of since it affects the GABA system like benzodiazepines, but it is very low dose and so probably less harmful than bad sleep - with that spray, it will be easier to fall asleep again but I don’t seem to be able to sleep through the night.

So I am trying to resign myself to the fact I may not be able to sleep through the night ever again.

Please tell me I still can avoid Alzheimers if this happens.

Thank you

Chris

[Jay Ess]

I'm not in a position to say whether you'll be able to avoid Alzheimer's or not, but this really helped me: https://www.sleepio.com/

If it's not covered by your insurance, there may be some similar sleep training you can find.

[Ylangirl]

Your situation sounds very familiar to me, as I also struggle with both sleep and anxiety. I have been on a sleep-health journey for many years, and these are some things I have learned about my own body. It will likely be different for you, but perhaps something will help.

First of all, I used to struggle to fall asleep, but now fall asleep within minutes of hitting the bed. I still wake up in the middle of the night, and sometimes fall back asleep, but not always. Here are things I learned for the sleep onset:

I do not eat after 6 or 6:30 at the latest. Ideally, I'd finish eating by 5:30, allowing me 3 hours before I go to bed. I do take magnesium before bed. Truthfully, I have taken so many supplements (melatonin, different natural sleep remedies my naturopath suggested), but I don't feel any of them helped. What has helped: my own homegrown cannabis tea. I have tea late afternoon, followed by dinner. It helps relax me and put me to sleep.

I also pay attention to the last 2 hours of the evening. I have built a routine that includes things that relax me: long baths, snuggle time with my guy, and sometimes reading or drawing. And I go to sleep when I am tired, even if it is embarrassingly early: 8:30 or 9. I value my circadian rhythm and will no longer mess with it.

I don't exercise past 5 now (though I go for walks). My Bredesen health coach advised me that it may be decreasing my ability to relax and restore in the evenings.

When I can't sleep (either fall asleep or stay asleep), I get out of bed. That is important for me. It helps with anxiety. If I stay in bed, I still don't sleep and I am very stressed out. I actually feel better to just get out of bed for an hour or so, and try again later. If I wake up at 4, I don't even try to go back to bed. I have to leave for work by 7:30, and my anxious brain does not allow me to sleep in unless I know I have a few hours to work with.

When I am out of bed, I feel pretty crappy. The first 30 minutes are hard, but then I get into a groove...usually doing my bullet journal (it's beautiful with drawings, lettering, etc). It's a silver lining for insomnia. When I look back on past years, I know I was not sleeping well when I see a stunning bullet journal page! This truly helps my anxiety, as I am not freaking out in bed, but rather doing a healing practice: journaling.

Sometimes I cry. And if you do as well, know that you aren't alone. I am working on tolerating things I can't control (as I hope to improve them). I am also working on my "heart rate variability" which is very low. This is no surprise this is a sign of a stressed out nervous system : stuck in fight or flight. Definitely describes me. I have a good life, but had a horrible childhood. My nervous system took a beating, and has not recovered.

I am also looking into HRT. I have just completed the DUTCH hormone test which tests hormone levels (including cortisol...mine is very high).

Sending you peaceful thoughts and compassion. You are not alone.

[floramaria]

From what I read, melatonin may be helpful. The only relatively clean melatonin I have access to also has passion flower, which I am a bit apprehensive of since it affects the GABA system like benzodiazepines, but it is very low dose and so probably less harmful than bad sleep - with that spray, it will be easier to fall asleep again but I don’t seem to be able to sleep through the night.

So I am trying to resign myself to the fact I may not be able to sleep through the night ever again.

Please tell me I still can avoid Alzheimers if this happens.

Thank you

Chris

I understand your frustration at not being to sleep well. And also your concerns about what this may be doing to you long term. But I don’t think that there is any reason for you to resign yourself to never sleeping through the night.
There have been periods in my life when my sleep was so bad that I felt desperately hopeless too. But in general, my sleep is vastly improved, though there are still rough nights here and there.
The suggestions you’ve gotten in the other replies are really good ones. I never got to the point of trying Sleepio myself, but have heard good reports. Matthew Walker , sleep expert and author of Why We Sleep, says :….there are already numerous and effective behavioral methods for improving your sleep, especially if you suffer from insomnia. Currently, the most effective of these is called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, or CBT-I …”
He states that CBT-I has proven benefits and that the results of CBT-I have been replicated in numerous clinical trials around the world.
More information available from National Sleep Foundation website. Sleepio may be one of the providers of this type of sleep therapy.

For a source of pure melatonin in powdered form with no fillers, I’ve used this company. I take around 10 mg of melatonin an hour or so before bed. While I know that many people think this is too high and it should not be continued long term,through experimentation I have found that it helps my sleep quality.
https://purebulk.com/products/?gclid=Cj ... =melatonin

The final page of Mathew Walker’s book restates what Ylangirl says above: “don’t lie in bed awake. if you find yourself still awake after staying in bed for more than 20 minutes or if you are starting to feel anxious ….get up and do something relaxing until you feel sleepy.”
Sometimes I do that. I’ll get up, even if it is 3 or 4 in the morning, and read until I can’t hold my head up.

Other times, like last night, I stay in bed and just put on an Audible book and listen to that. Even though I don’t think I fell asleep, at least I wasn’t feeling anxious. I was relaxing, getting physical rest , and listening instead of worrying.

While I don’t think that not sleeping dooms you to Alzheimer’s , I believe that it is worth continuing to work towards better sleep.

Getting your bHRT dosing figured out may also be really helpful. Progesterone improves sleep quality for many women.
It definitely made a difference for me.

Good luck!!!!!
….And Sweet dreams

[Chrisweides]

Thank you both of you for your very kind and encouraging words! It helps a lot to know I am not alone in this. Hormones do such things to us…this had a rather sudden onset about half a year ago and has been crashing my life. On the plus side I pay much more attention on living healthy and I will continue to do so once I am recovered from this degree of anxiety which fits the bill for mental illness.

I will look into whether there is some sort of CBT-I to be had where I live.

Hopefully, with time and patience, sleep will improve. I also had a very bad childhood and my body has been in „hypervigilance“ mode for decades. It will be a lot of work to get out of this. Ironically, I hear older age (more than 70) will help since emotions tend to blunt a bit, or so my mum and her older friends say.

I don’t cry in the night because my anxiety makes me feel stiff and paralyzed rather than sad. I do in the day though sometimes thinking about these things. I believe it is important to acknowledge and accept your feelings of sadness provided it is possible to move on afterwards- if there is a feeling of drowning in sadness I would strongly suggest getting a therapists help. Sometimes it is just too much alone.

Next time I wander around I will be thinking of you two kind and warm-hearted women and hope you are sound asleep or at least occupied pleasantly if not

I am trying to do the getting out of bed, but often it is so warm and outside is so cold…but yes, I will start to be more consistent in this. I will also look into your other suggestions.

What is a bullet journal if I may ask?

Best

Chris

[floramaria]

The first 30 minutes are hard, but then I get into a groove...usually doing my bullet journal (it's beautiful with drawings, lettering, etc). It's a silver lining for insomnia.

What is a bullet journal if I may ask?

I'm quoting you both here so that Ylangirl will be notified and see your question, Chrisweides.

[Tincup]

Hello fellow prevention oriented people,

Hi Chris,

This post has links to various aids to getting to or back to sleep. I find yoga nidra scripts (also known as NSDR or non sleep deep rest very helpful as they put me into a sleep like state where I commonly go to sleep, but even if I don't they tend to be restorative, like sleep. You can search for yoga nidra scripts on this free app.

If I wake up in the middle of the night, I go to another room with a couch with a recliner seat. I recline, put on headphones, and listen to these scripts, with my phone in airplane mode.

[Chrisweides]

Thank you all so much!

It is 3.40am and the second time I wake up - I will get up now and do yoga nidra.

[Ylangirl]

The first 30 minutes are hard, but then I get into a groove...usually doing my bullet journal (it's beautiful with drawings, lettering, etc). It's a silver lining for insomnia.

What is a bullet journal if I may ask?

I'm quoting you both here so that Ylangirl will be notified and see your question, Chrisweides.

[Ylangirl]

I am terrible at editing/posting on this site. But, in case this needs explanation, a bullet journal is a calendar/art journal in one. The two pages I posted are of a monthly calendar: I use it to draw/document the good moments (and occasionally, the hard ones too). The other page is a "future log" which is a calendar of the next 6 months. The book is blank when I start...and I fill out a weekly page, monthly page, and others. This is sometimes done on a sleepless night...3 -4 am, if I can't sleep this is what I do. Anyhow, I may have already posted this, but it disappeared. IF this is a duplicate post: apologies!