Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

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JakeKXF
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Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by JakeKXF »

G'day, I'm new to this forum and joined because of what has recently happened to me.

I think I have proof that the carnivore diet causes heart disease, in me anyway.

I'm 57, 1.75m and 76kg, have never smoked always been relatively fit, drink in moderation and have never touched drugs of any kind.

I’m quite active and have a labour intensive job, lots of climbing around etc. I ride dirt bikes in my spare time, which is a proper workout.

I started the keto diet in 2015 and progressed to full carnivore in 2019.

In July 2021 I had a STEMI, 99% blockage in LAD, needed a bypass but we were in the third wave of COVID and the ventilators were not allowed to be used. The Cardiologist was forced to stent into an aneurysm. I was very fortunate to survive this, the Anesthetist told me afterwards that it was divine intervention as the Cardiologist was prepared to take a risk regarding something she had only recently read about.

I was put on a low dose statin 5mg Crestor. The Cardiologist did another angiogram 6 weeks later to check her stent, while there she checked all other arteries, found one non flow restricting lesion in RCA (10%) which she wasn't concerned about. I continued the carnivore diet, but was even stricter, no cheating and took my statin with blood thinners etc.

On Tuesday last week I had another heart attack, 99% blockage in the RCA and received another stent.

My blood sugar was 4.5 and my blood pressure around 120/80 so no concerns there. In fact while I was in recovery in ICU afterwards my sleeping blood pressure was measured at 85/55.

The Cardiologist made no bones about it; my high cholesterol was the cause, and with the evidence I have, how can I argue.

So to summarize, I had the gold standard test and no blockages found, 1.5 years later on strict carnivore, full blown heart attack.

There is a history of heart disease on my mom's side of the family with most of the men dying young of heart attacks. I have not tested my APOE gen yet but I would not be surprised if I'm 4/4 and have started eating in accordance.

Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
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Julie G
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by Julie G »

Hi Jake. Thank you for sharing and I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. When you were keto, what kind of a diet were you eating? I ask because there are so many variations of keto.

Also, your BG looks great. Is that your fasting morning glucose? Do you have an HbA1c for more of a longitudinal perspective?

Have you ever done more advanced lipids to get your LDL particle number, oxLDL, etc?

You say that you're eating as if you were a 4/4. Can you please describe your current diet? I'm a 4/4 and have helped to develop a diet that seems to work very well for this genotype described here.

Please rest and heal, my friend. You've been through a lot.
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floramaria
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by floramaria »

JakeKXF wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:14 am G'day, I'm new to this forum and joined because of what has recently happened to me.

I think I have proof that the carnivore diet causes heart disease, in me anyway.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It is a cautionary tale for others who may be considering the carnivore diet.
Sending best wishes to you as you heal from the recent heart attack and look for a diet that will support your long term health.
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Alexia C
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by Alexia C »

JakeKXF wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:14 am G'day, I'm new to this forum and joined because of what has recently happened to me.

I think I have proof that the carnivore diet causes heart disease, in me anyway.

Hello Jake,

Welcome! I am so glad you decided to join our forum and are asking questions so other members can shed some light to your inquiry. I am so sorry to hear about your health journey, it has not been easy. I hope you recover soon and are back to your active lifestyle. As I read your post, I can sense your concern and confusion about the carnivore diet. Let me share with you some links in our Wiki that might provide some guidance:

ApoE 4 and Health Conditions besides (or maybe contributing to) Alzheimer's

Cholesterol, Lipids and Treatments, including Statins

If you would like to learn more about ApoE4, the Primer is a detailed and informative resource written by a practicing M.D. with ApoE4/4. It includes information about the biochemistry of the ApoE4 gene and offers a variety of research-based prevention strategies. If you decide to test the Primer will be very helpful in understanding your results.

As a welcome intern, I would also like to point out some links/resources that might be helpful as you explore the site further.

The How-To Guide shows how to quote members (use the " icon in the upper right of any post) so they get an email notification of your post. It also shows how to use the Search function for topics, and how to subscribe to topics of interest.

If you are interested in learning more about other members check out Our Stories. You might find members with experiences like yours that can help to steer you in the right direction.

Again, I am so glad you joined our forum and hope you find the support you need. I look forward to hearing from you in the future. Reach out anytime and continue to ask questions.

Wishing you a healthy recovery!

Take care,

Alexia C
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by NF52 »

JakeKXF wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:14 am G'day, I'm new to this forum and joined because of what has recently happened to me.

I think I have proof that the carnivore diet causes heart disease, in me anyway. ...So to summarize, I had the gold standard test and no blockages found, 1.5 years later on strict carnivore, full blown heart attack.

There is a history of heart disease on my mom's side of the family with most of the men dying young of heart attacks. I have not tested my APOE gen yet but I would not be surprised if I'm 4/4 and have started eating in accordance.

Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
G'day back to you, JakeKXF!

With a greeting like that, and use of the metric system, I'm guessing you might be in Australia, where some distant genetic relatives of my English/Scottish relatives have turned up. My daughter spent a week there with other 13-years old many years ago and came back brimming with excitement at the beauty of the places, the people and, of course, the koalas!

My dad had an experience like yours many years ago: A serious silent heart attack was diagnosed only months later, when he was seen by a cardiologist after an ECG, followed quickly by quadruple bypass surgery and an "all-clear". Yet he too had complete blockage of another artery (probably the RCA) 7 months later. He had at least one copy of ApoE4 because I am ApoE 4/4. More importantly, I am sure he had high Lp(a), a highly hereditary type of cholesterol that is not tested for in typical cholesterol tests.

Here's some info about Lp(a) from the US Centers for Disease Control:
High Lp(a) levels increase your likelihood of having a heart attack or stroke, especially if you have familial hypercholesterolemia (FH) or signs of coronary heart disease. This is because:
  • Like LDL-cholesterol, Lp(a)-cholesterol can build up in the walls of your blood vessels. The higher your Lp(a) level is, the more likely this is to happen. These cholesterol deposits, called plaques, can decrease blood flow to your heart, brain, kidneys, lungs, legs, and other parts of your body. Plaques can grow over time or suddenly rupture, blocking blood vessels and leading to heart attacks or strokes.
  • Lp(a) can cause increased clotting, which can lead to rapidly formed blockages in blood vessels.
  • Lp(a) promotes inflammation which increases the likelihood that plaques will rupture.
  • High Lp(a) can also lead to narrowing of the aortic valve, called aortic stenosis, because of its role in inflammation.
How do I know if I have high Lp(a)?
High Lp(a) levels, defined as greater than 50 mg/dL (125 nmol/L), are common. Median Lp(a) levels vary by race and sex... your doctor may suspect that you have high Lp(a) if you have any of the following risk factors:

Poor circulation in your legs (called peripheral arterial disease)
Heart attack, stroke, or coronary artery disease before age 55 (in men) or age 65 (in women) without known risk factors, such as high LDL, smoking, diabetes, or obesity
Female family members who had a heart attack or stroke before age 65
Male family members who had a heart attack or stroke before age 55
Familial hypercholesterolemia
Certain types of aortic stenosis
https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/lipoprotein_a.htm

My own Lp(a) is well above the "high" level of 125; I've been fortunate that I have no coronary artery plaque and no aortic stenosis on CT scans in the last few years. My father's love of bacon, sausage, shepherd's pie, red meat and most saturated fats won't be carried on by me now that I know my risks.

Your wonderful cardiologist may have already tested for Lp(a), since I think Crestor is one of the new-generation drugs given for high Lp(a) and/or familial hypercholesterolemia. But if might be worth asking about that, and asking if during those stent procedures, they were able to see if your aortic valve is doing its job well.

The silver lining in all of this--beyond having a superb doctor--is that you know have both the ability and the willingness to design a diet for your own very special heart and arteries, so that you can keep saying G'day to all of us Yanks!

Nancy
4/4 and still an optimist!
richhahn
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by richhahn »

I have a hypothesis because I had a somewhat similar experience, but I had very high spikes in BP that would last for about 10 hours and then BP would return to normal. Eventually I had 2 stents and aortic valve replaced.

I was eating a high saturated fat diet and had been for several years.

I found I have several SNPs which indicate a probability of having difficulty digesting and metabolizing fats, especially saturated fat. You can get the SNPs from 23andme or similar test.

Then I learned that if I had a leaky gut, the undigested fat could leak into the blood as the lipid part of lipolysaccharides (lps), also known as endotoxins. LPSs cause inflammation and are linked to heart disease. There is a test for leaky gut, but the name escapes me.

Short version

SNPs (poor digestion/metabolization of saturated fat -> leaky gut -> LPSs = Heart Disease

Solution: change diet, repair leaky gut
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by TheresaB »

JakeKXF wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:14 am Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
richhahn wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:24 pm Solution: change diet, repair leaky gut
I second what richhahn said. FYI, we have a wiki on leaky gut. Gut-Brain Connection: Leaky Gut/Leaky Brain, Microbiome (gut bugs), it includes a discussion on causes, how to address a leaky gut, and discussion on LPS. (FYI, LPS has nickname: Little Pieces of Sh*t because they're so nasty. When contained they're innocuous, but if they get into the bloodstream, they wreck havoc). We also have a wiki on LPS Inflammation & LPS
-Theresa
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floramaria
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Re: Second heart attack on Carnivore diet

Post by floramaria »

richhahn wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:24 pm I have a hypothesis because I had a somewhat similar experience, but I had very high spikes in BP that would last for about 10 hours and then BP would return to normal. Eventually I had 2 stents and aortic valve replaced.

I was eating a high saturated fat diet and had been for several years.

I found I have several SNPs which indicate a probability of having difficulty digesting and metabolizing fats, especially saturated fat. You can get the SNPs from 23andme or similar test.

Then I learned that if I had a leaky gut, the undigested fat could leak into the blood as the lipid part of lipolysaccharides (lps), also known as endotoxins. LPSs cause inflammation and are linked to heart disease. There is a test for leaky gut, but the name escapes me.

Short version

SNPs (poor digestion/metabolization of saturated fat -> leaky gut -> LPSs = Heart Disease

Solution: change diet, repair leaky gut
Thanks for adding your experience to this thread. Interesting hypothesis about the poor digestion-> leaky gut->LPS -> heart disease. Makes sense!
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