Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jan18
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Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

Post by Jan18 »

Hi everyone,
After having so much trouble the last few years trying to stick to eating according to Gundry's guidelines and so much to cut out -- and I'm not talking about sweets or packaged foods, but foods that other "experts" regard as "healthy" but he doesn't because of lectins or other stuff -- my question is if low carb/high good fat is the basic premise, why are the Blue Zones considered so healthy and those in them are reported to have lower incidence of heart disease, diabetes, etc. and even AD? Their diets include breads and grains and legumes and other vegetables Gundry disdains for health.

I feel I could follow the Seventh Day Adventist diet (have researched it) because I do love vegetables. But they include whole wheat bread and oats as a big part of their diet.

Can you give me info as to why a vegetarian or ovo-vegetarian or lacto-ovo vegetarian diet isn't right for us apoe4's? Cannot we include some of the "demon" grains and vegetables Gundry warns of? Is it just a matter of trying different foods for ourselves, monitoring our reactions or nonreactions and blood work, etc. to see which and how much we can tolerate? I haven't been in ketosis for months, because I've been so frustrated with this way of eating.

And much of it has to do with cooking. I can barely find any recipes that adhere to all of the restrictions, even on the Apollo site! There are recipes there that include stuff we aren't "supposed" to have! I was shocked! It was suggested here once to me that I might have been being "too strict". Does everyone here never let a forbidden grain, a piece of sourdough or whole wheat bread, a nightshade vegetable cross their lips???? From my impression, they don't and I guess I'm just baffled.

Or if you have a lengthy discussion of this topic, direct me to it so you don't have to repeat info?

Thanks!
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

Post by Jay Ess »

If you really want to know what foods are taking you in the right or wrong direction, the suggestion I would give to anyone, APOE4 or otherwise, is to do what Michael Lustgarten does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI1nGnG1r8c

In brief: Get a full blood test, enter the data in Aging.AI, make the dietary changes you want to make, then after a couple months get another blood test and find out of the changes you made are taking your blood work in the direction of looking younger or older.
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jay Ess wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:51 am If you really want to know what foods are taking you in the right or wrong direction, the suggestion I would give to anyone, APOE4 or otherwise, is to do what Michael Lustgarten does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI1nGnG1r8c

In brief: Get a full blood test, enter the data in Aging.AI, make the dietary changes you want to make, then after a couple months get another blood test and find out of the changes you made are taking your blood work in the direction of looking younger or older.
Thanks for taking time to read my post and reply, Jay Ess!

Clarification: I didn't mean I wasn't in ketosis and didn't know why. I've been following this protocol since 2017....on and off....off when I feel just too restricted!

I meant I have to eat SO strictly to be in ketosis and don't think it is healthy to NEVER have some of the grains/vegetables Gundry says to "Just Say No" to. When I read "Just Say No", to me that means NO. NEVER. He doesn't say "Just Say No Most of the Time, but Some of These Are Good For You Once in a While." That's why I asked the community if they do, in fact, have some of his forbidden foods either in small quantities or occasionally.

I cited the Blue Zones diets, because they eat his forbidden foods regularly and have much lower incidents of AD.

Your suggested site is interesting. I will look at it. Thank you!

But I do have my bloodwork done on a regular basis by my functional medicine doctor, yes.
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Jan18
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jay Ess wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:51 am If you really want to know what foods are taking you in the right or wrong direction, the suggestion I would give to anyone, APOE4 or otherwise, is to do what Michael Lustgarten does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI1nGnG1r8c
Whoa! Jay Ess, I took a look at that site. I track daily on cronometer, too, but what he's doing is way too detailed for me. And the first thing I noticed is he eats 39 strawberries A DAY?!
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jan18 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:29 am And the first thing I noticed is he eats 39 strawberries A DAY?!
Yeah, his diet is interesting... he's also eating about a pound of carrots a day. I like most of the foods he eats, but I haven't made time to eat those quantities.
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jan18 wrote:Does everyone here never let a forbidden grain, a piece of sourdough or whole wheat bread, a nightshade vegetable cross their lips???? From my impression, they don't and I guess I'm just baffled.
Not sure where you got the idea that everyone on the site eats the Gundry or Bredesen strictly everyday. There have been posts by people eating pressure cooked legumes, vegan and higher carb diets on and off for years.

I personally still eat some nightshades occasionally, specifically tomatoes and peppers. I've had to add more carbs back in like some root vegetables and winter squash, because I could not keep on enough weight with a more classic keto diet at 50 g/day of carbs. I also eat rice and sometimes rice-based bread. I don't eat other grains, pseudo grains or legumes that you find in Blue Zone diets because they are high in oxalates. In the case of wheat, I gave that up 14 years ago because I'm very intolerant - makes my joints hurt.

But I have also eliminated nuts, beets, spinach, Swiss chard, sweet potatoes, olives and other foods that are commonly lauded as healthy in the keto world, because they are high oxalate content. A "typical" Bredesen or Gundry diet doesn't work for me.

My advice is eat what works for you. If you want to eat more like Blue Zone diets, add some of those foods in (one at a time preferably). Track any new/different symptoms within 48 hours of eating a new food, do some extra labs for inflammation, check your ketones and glucose. You might find you personally have more flexibility than what you have read about the Gundry or Bredesen diet.

Remember, there is no perfect, "one size fits all" diet to avoid Alzheimer's. We're all different. Think of Gundry or Bredesen diets as guidelines that you need to individualize and make work for you. Your goal is to make your diet healthy AND sustainable for the long run.

Good luck!
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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SusanJ wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:29 pmRemember, there is no perfect, "one size fits all" diet to avoid Alzheimer's. We're all different. Think of Gundry or Bredesen diets as guidelines that you need to individualize and make work for you. Your goal is to make your diet healthy AND sustainable for the long run.
This is a nice little nutshell. I ate Gundry/Bredesen/Keto-like for a long time. Then I needed thyroid surgery that meant I would need to eat more carbs and be out of ketosis for a long while while my body adjusted to everything. I added some grains, pressure cooked beans, and nightshades and other goodies back in. In shifting to the more MIND/Meditrannean diet, I feel good and I'm not bloated the way this diet would have made me in the past. I still steer clear of gluten and dairy (I'm too chicken to even try gluten, and dairy still messes me up), but I have a feeling that my years on a restricted keto diet along with other changes brought some healing to my 'system'. I'm much happier with the variety in my diet. I eat most of my carbs through about 2-3 pm and then shift to my older style eating for the rest of the day. I've not tested my ketones this entire time. I'm inclined to stick to my 12-14 hour night fast and I'm planning to start 1, 3, and/or 5 day periodic fasts to tune up my system regularly. Exercise of course helps with the increased carbs.

I think that with several thousand or more members here (I haven't checked in a while), most of whom, perhaps, never post, we cannot reliably say that most people in this group do any particular thing at all. Unfortunately I've even heard Dr. Bredesen say most people here follow his protocol. Unless I'm missed a survey (possible!) and relevant data, these kinds of comments aren't the science I'm looking for and do little to advance our cause. It would also be unwise to assume that any one way of eating is appropriate for all phases in life, let alone for all people who are ApoE4.

All that's not to say that I don't think Dr. Bredesen and Dr. Gundry's work aren't highly valuable to us—their perspectives have done and do a lot for me—just that context is everything, and ApoE4 is just one variable in our individual makeups.

I admire your stepping back and taking another look Jan18, kinda like the James Webb telescope :)
ApoE 3/4 > Thanks in advance for any responses made to my posts.
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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SusanJ wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:29 pm My advice is eat what works for you. If you want to eat more like Blue Zone diets, add some of those foods in (one at a time preferably). Track any new/different symptoms within 48 hours of eating a new food, do some extra labs for inflammation, check your ketones and glucose. You might find you personally have more flexibility than what you have read about the Gundry or Bredesen diet.

Remember, there is no perfect, "one size fits all" diet to avoid Alzheimer's. We're all different. Think of Gundry or Bredesen diets as guidelines that you need to individualize and make work for you. Your goal is to make your diet healthy AND sustainable for the long run.

Good luck!
Thank you, that's what I'm going to do. Priority #1 is losing the last pounds I need to lose to be in a healthy weight range. So I need to figure out what I can stick to to do that. If there are days I only register .5 in ketones, I'm not going to obsess about it. I am not bothered by many of the foods Gundry outlaws.

As far as where I got the idea everyone was following Gundry, it's in the Primer, and as I recall, Bredesen is on board with it, and when I've asked what people are eating before, I've been told they follow Gundry's accepted foods for Apoe4's. I've asked if someone could tell me what some typical days of meals/menus would look like, but don't recall being given any specifics. So I was under the impression that most people following Bredesen's protocol adhered strictly to those lists. I've obviously missed the posts you reference, as I get too stressed if I read a lot here, thinking I'm not doing it "right".

But I have found if I have, for instance, some potatoes, I'll eat them with foods that lower their glycemic effect. So on my own, I've been adding some of the "forbidden" foods in small quantities. I just think there are a lot of healthy foods that Gundry has "demonized".

Thanks again for the encouragement!
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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circular wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:12 am
SusanJ wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:29 pmRemember, there is no perfect, "one size fits all" diet to avoid Alzheimer's. We're all different. Think of Gundry or Bredesen diets as guidelines that you need to individualize and make work for you. Your goal is to make your diet healthy AND sustainable for the long run.
This is a nice little nutshell. I ate Gundry/Bredesen/Keto-like for a long time. Then I needed thyroid surgery that meant I would need to eat more carbs and be out of ketosis for a long while while my body adjusted to everything. I added some grains, pressure cooked beans, and nightshades and other goodies back in. In shifting to the more MIND/Meditrannean diet, I feel good and I'm not bloated the way this diet would have made me in the past. I still steer clear of gluten and dairy (I'm too chicken to even try gluten, and dairy still messes me up), but I have a feeling that my years on a restricted keto diet along with other changes brought some healing to my 'system'. I'm much happier with the variety in my diet. I eat most of my carbs through about 2-3 pm and then shift to my older style eating for the rest of the day. I've not tested my ketones this entire time. I'm inclined to stick to my 12-14 hour night fast and I'm planning to start 1, 3, and/or 5 day periodic fasts to tune up my system regularly. Exercise of course helps with the increased carbs.

I think that with several thousand or more members here (I haven't checked in a while), most of whom, perhaps, never post, we cannot reliably say that most people in this group do any particular thing at all. Unfortunately I've even heard Dr. Bredesen say most people here follow his protocol. Unless I'm missed a survey (possible!) and relevant data, these kinds of comments aren't the science I'm looking for and do little to advance our cause. It would also be unwise to assume that any one way of eating is appropriate for all phases in life, let alone for all people who are ApoE4.

All that's not to say that I don't think Dr. Bredesen and Dr. Gundry's work aren't highly valuable to us—their perspectives have done and do a lot for me—just that context is everything, and ApoE4 is just one variable in our individual makeups.

I admire your stepping back and taking another look Jan18, kinda like the James Webb telescope :)
Thank you so much for everything you shared about your journey, Circular, and for what you say about Bredesen and Gundry. Your statements echo exactly my thoughts about hearing Bredesen say people here were following their protocol (that contributed to my believing everyone here was) and also that their work is very valuable and appreciated.

It has taken me a long time and lots of reading of functional medicine sources to come up with a broader perspective and the courage to work out my own nutrition, but that's my journey now. I've spent too much time obsessing over every little detail of the protocol and restricting myself in an unsustainable way.

And it is especially nuts, because my Apollo test scores are excellent and my blood work (for the last few years) is also good. I think I just was made (or made myself) so afraid of deviating and introduced so much stress, that I had to take a different perspective. But I wouldn't turn back the clock to 2016 when I didn't know about Bredesen and Gundry! I've gained so much here, including better health!

Thanks, again!!!
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Re: Blue Zones, specifically Seventh Day Adventists

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Jan18 wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:40 am
my question is if low carb/high good fat is the basic premise, why are the Blue Zones considered so healthy and those in them are reported to have lower incidence of heart disease, diabetes, etc. and even AD? Their diets include breads and grains and legumes and other vegetables Gundry disdains for health.

I feel I could follow the Seventh Day Adventist diet (have researched it) because I do love vegetables. But they include whole wheat bread and oats as a big part of their diet.
It is interesting you mention the Blue Zones and the Seventh Day Adventist's diet. The reason people living in the Blue Zones have less incidence of some diseases and live longer is because there is silica in their water. The form of silica in the water is OSA and this form is effective at removing aluminum from the body and brain. My husband Dennis N Crouse has written an evidenced based book on the Blue Zones and Silica water. The Seventh day Adventists you mention drink 8 glasses a day of water. For those not familiar Loma Linda has been designated a Blue Zone and there are many Seventh Day Adventists living in this city. My husband has also been reading the scientific literature on Alzheimer's for the past decade as his mother has late onset Alzheimer's. Aluminum is the cause of Alzheimer's and drinking silica rich mineral water removes the aluminum. He also has a write up on the Keto diet being a work around for aluminum interfering with fat mobilization. http://prevent-alzheimers-autism-stroke ... er-is.html Here is a link to the introduction to his Silica water Blue Zone book. http://prevent-alzheimers-autism-stroke ... water.html
Apoe 3/4

"True prevention is only possible by first discovering the cause of a disease such as Alzheimer's."
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