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Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 12:56 pm
by Kikiwebb
Does ANYONE here still drink a few glasses of wine during the week? 3-4 glasses of wine per week?

also, do you all do the bresden keto flex diet? do you take exogenous ketones? if yes what ones?

Re: Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 6:09 am
by TheresaB
I can’t tell you that a little bit of red wine for you is okay, because I frankly don’t know.

I think by now we’ve all heard alcohol isn’t good for brain health, especially for ApoE4s. But on the other hand we’ve likely all heard that polyphenol consumption can delay the onset of dementia and reduce the risk for Alzheimer's.and red wine is a good source of polyphenols. The top of the Bredesen KetoFlex Food Pyramid (see the ApoE4.info wiki Bredesen Protocol) does allow a small amount of indulgences at the tippy-top of the pyramid and the indulgence list does cite red wine, but that pyramid isn’t directed at ApoE4s, but for all populations, and he has written in his End of Alzheimer’s Program book, “Focused research has shown that ApoE4 carriers do poorly with any amount of alcohol” (p 177).

So what to believe? I suspect the alcohol detriment probably outweighs the polyphenol benefit, especially later in life for ApoE4s, but I really don't know.

Besides, we’re all different, even if we are all ApoE4s, because we all have different family histories, metabolic health, other genes, racial/ethic backgrounds, etc. Maybe a little bit of red wine is okay for you but wouldn’t be for me.

My advice is if you choose to drink wine (which I personally do),
*keep the amount small
*drink a dry (low sugar content) red wine
*only choose organic red wine
*do not drink in the evening, but drink far enough away from bedtime so as not to interfere with sleep which is also very important for brain health

I'll end with citing this paper, The Relationship Between Midlife and Late Life Alcohol Consumption, APOE e4 and the Decline in Learning and Memory Among Older Adults (Brian Downer et al, Jan 2014) it says,
Results: Light and moderate alcohol consumption during late life was associated with greater decline in learning and memory among APOE e4 carriers, whereas light and moderate alcohol consumption was associated with an increase in learning and memory among non-APOE e4 carriers. There was not a significant interaction between midlife alcohol consumption status and APOE e4 on the trajectory of learning and memory.
Conclusion: Light to moderate alcohol consumption during late life may protect against a decline in learning and memory for non-APOE e4 allele carriers, but not for older adults who carry one or more APOE e4 alleles.
With regard to your question on exogenous ketones, Dr Bredesen recommends them only to aid with the transition to becoming keto adapted. Relying on them doesn't get to the root of the problem and may actually exacerbate issues in the long run. To read more, read this ApoE4.info wiki, Coconut Oil, MCT oil, and other Ketone/Cognition Boosters (salts, esters)

Re: Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 6:16 am
by Kikiwebb
Thank you so much!

Re: Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:22 pm
by etcpa
Yes, I do continue to drink wine on a regular basis. I am careful as to how much I drink and try not to drink past dinner as I can tell it impacts my sleep (same as a later dinner). I have also switched primarily to low alcohol, low sugar, sustainably farmed, no additive...wines. I drink primarily whites as they tend to be lower alcohol. I order wines from DRY Farm Wines which primarily are European wines that are much lower alcohol than CA wines. Probably not the best approach but so far is working for me. My diet is relatively healthy but not strict Keto Flex. I am ApoE 4/4 so I probably should be more careful but do not want to get neurotic about the rules and stress over them. Stress may be worse than a nice glass of wine. I am 67 and still going strong but will adjust my approach in the future if it becomes necessary.

Re: Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:42 pm
by Kikiwebb
This is a relief to hear. I am pretty healthy, not strictly keto but my friends all call me a health nut. I am going to continue to enjoy organic wines a couple times a week and I am happy that someone else is as well. I feel like I could do all these restrictions and not enjoy my life as much and then end up still getting Alzheimer’s. I don’t want have regrets in life and be neurotic and live a very controlled rigid life and still get Alzheimer’s. I think there’s something to the being relaxed and enjoying your life aspect that makes you live longer as well. Living with constant fear and restriction can’t be good. I enjoy an occasional sweet , but I have heard that as long as you are controlling most factors, if there’s a few things you want to indulge in for quality of life that is OK.

Re: Alcohol and Ketones?

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:36 am
by Lyre Taylor
etcpa wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 1:22 pm Yes, I do continue to drink wine on a regular basis. I am careful as to how much I drink and try not to drink past dinner as I can tell it impacts my sleep (same as a later dinner). I have also switched primarily to low alcohol, low sugar, sustainably farmed, no additive...wines. I drink primarily whites as they tend to be lower alcohol. I order wines from DRY Farm Wines which primarily are European wines that are much lower alcohol than CA wines. Probably not the best approach but so far is working for me. My diet is relatively healthy but not strict Keto Flex. I am ApoE 4/4 so I probably should be more careful but do not want to get neurotic about the rules and stress over them. Stress may be worse than a nice glass of wine. I am 67 and still going strong but will adjust my approach in the future if it becomes necessary.
Hello!
I enjoyed reading your post on wine. I see you have done your research. It’s great to see that you appreciate the importance of embracing lifestyle changes without unnecessary stress. As a support team intern, I sincerely thank you for your input. If you’re comfortable, feel free to share more about yourself in Our Stories.
We love learning from others’ experiences and growing together. 😊

I am glad you have joined, please reach out anytime with questions or if you just need support. You are not alone. We are here for you.

Thank you,
Lyre