Question about Alzheimers smell
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Question about Alzheimers smell
New here bu have been reading some of your discussions for the past few years. My husband (just turned 40) is APOE4x1. His mother lives with us and has had Alzheimers since her early 60s (now 78) her mom had it as well and I think it goes back in the family quite a ways. While I try not to think about my husband suffering the same fate, it is impossible not to when I am seeing his mom every day and her decline. I recently read an article about how some health conditions cause people to start smelling differently, and it made me think about how my mother in law smells. It's a strong sour smell, especially on her bedding. I recently notice the same smell from my husband. Is this something anyone else has experienced or am I just going insane. And if it is a sign of changes related to Alzheimers disease, then is there anything other than lifestyle changes that anyone has heard of for someone as young as 40? My husband has been gradually making changes to his diet, we are now fully vegetarian, lots of exercise, even use a sauna regularly.
Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
I recall my dad, at age 77 (30 years ago), had strong body odor the last ~4 months of his life. He didn't have AlzD, but did have cancer.emmywillow wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:35 pm And if it is a sign of changes related to Alzheimers disease, then is there anything other than lifestyle changes that anyone has heard of for someone as young as 40? My husband has been gradually making changes to his diet, we are now fully vegetarian, lots of exercise, even use a sauna regularly.
I asked Chat GPT 4o the associations between body odor and illness as a more general question than just with AlzD. Here is the response:
Changes in body odor due to illness can result from various physiological and biochemical factors associated with specific medical conditions. These changes often arise due to alterations in sweat composition, metabolism, or the activity of skin bacteria. Below are some examples of illnesses and the related changes in body odor:
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### **1. Diabetes**
- **Ketoacidosis:** In poorly controlled diabetes, the body breaks down fats, producing **ketones** that can lead to a sweet or fruity smell in the breath and sweat.
- **High Blood Sugar:** Increased sugar levels can promote bacterial growth, potentially altering body odor.
---
### **2. Liver Disease**
- **Fetor Hepaticus:** A musty, sweet odor on the breath or body is caused by the accumulation of sulfur-containing compounds like **dimethyl sulfide** due to impaired liver function.
---
### **3. Kidney Disease**
- **Uremic Odor:** Kidney dysfunction can result in the buildup of waste products, leading to a urine-like or "fishy" smell in the sweat or breath.
---
### **4. Infections**
- **Bacterial or Fungal Infections:** Skin infections caused by bacteria (e.g., staphylococcus or pseudomonas) can produce strong, unpleasant odors due to the release of volatile organic compounds (VOCs).
- **Yeast Infections:** Candida overgrowth, particularly in moist areas, can emit a sweet or "bread-like" odor.
---
### **5. Hyperhidrosis**
- **Excessive Sweating:** This condition can create a favorable environment for bacteria on the skin, leading to stronger body odor, particularly in areas like the armpits and feet.
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### **6. Trimethylaminuria (Fish Odor Syndrome)**
- This rare metabolic disorder prevents the breakdown of **trimethylamine**, causing a fish-like odor in sweat, urine, and breath.
---
### **7. Gastrointestinal Disorders**
- Certain conditions like Crohn's disease or irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) may influence body odor indirectly due to changes in gut bacteria or the release of gases.
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### **8. Hormonal Changes**
- Hormonal fluctuations caused by illnesses such as **hyperthyroidism** or **polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS)** can affect sweat composition, leading to changes in body odor.
---
### **9. Cancers**
- Some cancers, such as **skin, gastric, or lung cancer**, have been associated with distinct body odors, possibly due to metabolic byproducts released by tumors.
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### **10. Stress or Anxiety**
- Stress-related sweating from **apocrine glands** is richer in proteins and fats, which bacteria metabolize, leading to a more intense odor.
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### **11. Poor Hygiene Due to Illness**
- Chronic illness or disability can lead to difficulties maintaining hygiene, exacerbating body odor.
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### Management and Diagnosis
- Maintaining good hygiene, using antiperspirants, and wearing breathable clothing can help manage symptoms.
- Persistent or unusual body odor should be discussed with a healthcare provider to rule out underlying medical conditions.
Here are some expanded references that may help you understand more about changes in body odor due to illness:
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1. **"Body Odor: Causes, Changes, Underlying Conditions" - Cleveland Clinic**
- [https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/d ... -body-odor](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/d ... -body-odor)
2. **"Diabetic Ketoacidosis" - Mayo Clinic**
- [https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20371551](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20371551)
3. **"Fetor Hepaticus and Liver Disease" - Healthline**
- [https://www.healthline.com/health/fetor-hepaticus](https://www.healthline.com/health/fetor-hepaticus)
4. **"What Is Uremia?" - National Kidney Foundation**
- [https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/uremia](https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/uremia)
5. **"Hyperhidrosis: Overview, Causes, and Treatment" - International Hyperhidrosis Society**
- [https://www.sweathelp.org/home.html](https://www.sweathelp.org/home.html)
6. **"Trimethylaminuria (Fish Odor Syndrome)" - National Human Genome Research Institute**
- [https://www.genome.gov/Genetic-Disorder ... ylaminuria](https://www.genome.gov/Genetic-Disorder ... ylaminuria)
7. **"Stress Sweat vs. Regular Sweat: What’s the Difference?" - WebMD**
- [https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and ... ress-sweat](https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and ... ress-sweat)
8. **"Cancer and Its Effects on Body Odor" - American Cancer Society**
- [https://www.cancer.org/cancer.html](https://www.cancer.org/cancer.html)
9. **"Changes in Body Odor and Underlying Hormonal Conditions" - Endocrine Society**
- [https://www.endocrine.org/](https://www.endocrine.org/)
10. **"Skin Infections and Body Odor" - DermNet NZ**
- [https://dermnetnz.org/topics/bacterial-skin-infections](https://dermnetnz.org/topics/bacterial-skin-infections)
================
In my case, I was recently experimenting with oral ingestion of DMSO. It turns out DMSO can (chemically) oxidize to MSM (which is commonly taken for osteoarthritis & has no smell) or reduce to dimethyl sulfide (DMS). DMS can produce a very strong sulfur odor. I did this about 10 days ago, the night before we were having 18 guests for a party. The next morning my wife said, "the house smells!" I replied that it was likely me because of DMS from my intake of DMSO. I looked it up and found out that there was a mouse study where citronella would mask the DMS odor and the mice would not smell it. I quickly purchased some citronella essential oil and diffused it in the house. It worked. I bring up this anecdote as there may be something in your husband's veg diet that is creating an odor molecule. I'm 69, an ApoE 3/4 and cognitively well & married to a 4/4. As an aside, I also read that DMSO reducing to DMS vs oxidizing to MSM happens less over time as someone detoxifies. Hence the odor is less of an issue.
Tincup
E3,E4
E3,E4
Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
Hi Emmy,emmywillow wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:35 pm New here bu have been reading some of your discussions for the past few years. My husband (just turned 40) is APOE4x1. His mother lives with us and has had Alzheimers since her early 60s (now 78) her mom had it as well and I think it goes back in the family quite a ways. While I try not to think about my husband suffering the same fate, it is impossible not to when I am seeing his mom every day and her decline. I recently read an article about how some health conditions cause people to start smelling differently, and it made me think about how my mother in law smells. It's a strong sour smell, especially on her bedding. I recently notice the same smell from my husband. Is this something anyone else has experienced or am I just going insane. And if it is a sign of changes related to Alzheimers disease, then is there anything other than lifestyle changes that anyone has heard of for someone as young as 40? My husband has been gradually making changes to his diet, we are now fully vegetarian, lots of exercise, even use a sauna regularly.
I have 2 copies of ApoE 4 and am 72. I also am involved in a clinical trial and get to meet and hear from lots of Alzheimer’s researchers. I’ve never heard of a smell being specific to Alzheimer’s or having ApoE 4. There have been some studies suggesting that some people experience a loss of their sense of smell before some cognitive symptoms, but that is very tentative and not related to an actual odor.
Has your MIL been tested recently for a urinary tract infection? Unlike younger women who have painful symptoms with an UTI, older women with dementia who have to use Depends or have some urinary leakage can have silent UTIs. These can both cause odor on their bedding, which may need to go through the wash on the “sanitary” hot cycle. A UTI can and should be treated because it can lead to a bladder or kidney infection and hospitalization.
I wonder if your husband’s clothes have absorbed some of the bedding smell from caring for his mom. But at 40, he could reassure both of you by getting a physical and some routine blood work. Your diets and exercise routine are strong predictors of a long life and healthy brain for both of you!!
By the way, my three adult children all have one copy like your son and are just about the same age. You both deserve enormous respect for taking care of your MIL. You may be surprised to learn that “hospice” care is available to people with Alzheimer’s without having to have a life expectancy of 6 months or less. The reason for that is that it’s been shown that hospice nurses coming to your home can actually improve the quality of life and ease the family burden.
I hope you find moments of peace and love in this journey.
Nancy
4/4 and still an optimist!
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Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
Thank you for your advice, it is definitely reassuring! I should have probably described the smell as more subtle, I don't know if anyone else would really notice it. Below is the news article that got me thinking about the smell factor as potentially being the first sign of disease. But realistically I am not a superhuman smell detector so really it could just be that they smell similarly because they are related?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... iagnose-di
And good to know about hospice availability. Amazingly after showing the first signs almost 20 years ago my mother in law is still able to mostly care for herself, she lives in a separate apartment in our home. Our 3 kids are able to spend some time with her and she likes to read to them. I actually think that for her this disease is not so terrible, she truly lives in the moment. It is just hard for everyone else around her.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... iagnose-di
And good to know about hospice availability. Amazingly after showing the first signs almost 20 years ago my mother in law is still able to mostly care for herself, she lives in a separate apartment in our home. Our 3 kids are able to spend some time with her and she likes to read to them. I actually think that for her this disease is not so terrible, she truly lives in the moment. It is just hard for everyone else around her.
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Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human- ... smell-like
Another article about different disease smells.
Another article about different disease smells.
Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
Thanks for sharing these! I had forgotten reading about the wife who is a super-smeller and her help to researchers.emmywillow wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:40 pm https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human- ... smell-like
Another article about different disease smells.
The classic biomarker of Parkinson’s disease, which that woman’s husband had, is alpha-synuclein, different than the amyloid plaques and tau tangles seen in Alzheimer’s.
I saw the reference that the skin of people with Alzheimer’s may smell slightly like rye bread and realized that I never have rye bread so don’t know what it smells like!
At 40, it would be incredibly unusual for your husband to have any amyloid plaques with one copy of ApoE 4. Even in people my generation, only about 25% are diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment or Alzheimer’s by the age of 85. The study I am in stopped testing people in their 50’s for elevated amyloid because almost no one qualified, even with 2 copies. We have several members who “screen failed” in their late 50’s. The pace of research is exponentially faster than 5 years ago. I don’t worry about my kids facing this disease and hope you can let go of your worry for your husband.
Nancy
4/4 and still an optimist!
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Re: Question about Alzheimers smell
Thank you Nancy, I am glad I posed the question on here, you have made me feel much better! I do tend to be a worrier, for better or for worse!